Jason Howell and Jeff Jarvis discuss the $500 billion Stargate project investment in U.S. AI infrastructure, China’s innovative DeepSeek model outperforming GPT-4, Samsung’s Galaxy Unpacked event focusing on AI agents, Google’s classroom-focused Gemini tools, and more!
Support the show on Patreon! http://patreon.com/aiinsideshow
Subscribe to the new YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/@aiinsideshow
Note: Time codes subject to change depending on dynamic ad insertion by the distributor.
NEWS
0:04:17 - Announcing The Stargate Project
0:10:31 - How Chinese A.I. Start-Up DeepSeek Is Competing With Silicon Valley Giants
0:16:20 - Samsung Galaxy Unpacked and Agents on phones
0:32:01 - New Google education tools for 2025
0:38:59 - Google Workspace enables the future of AI-powered work for every business
0:42:29 - Copilot is now included in Microsoft 365 Personal and Family
0:43:27 - The Shadow of Cognitive Laziness in the Brilliance of LLMs
0:52:44 - ‘ChatGPT saved my life’: Reddit user credits AI chatbot for diagnosing his rare medical condition
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
this is AI inside episode 52 recorded Thursday January 23rd
2025 Samsung's AI agents this episode of AI inside is made
possible by our wonderful patrons at patreon.com inside show if you like what
you hear head on over and support us directly and thank you for making independent podcasting
possible what's happening everybody welcome to another episode of AI inside
the podcast where we take a look at the AI that is layered throughout so much of the world of technology and uh it's
quite a week for artificial intelligence I'm one of your hosts Jason how joined as always from the other side of the
country by Jeff Jarvis it's cold here it's cold it's cold I mean usually this
time of year it's pretty darn cold 7° this morning oh my goodness yeah that's
that's not just normal cold that's like oh no that's that's that's oppressive c
m gut busting yes do you have to uh are you uh tasked with like shoveling out
the the driveway my wife says remember how old you are so luckily we have somebody coming it's a long steep
driveway and I'm very clumsy and have fallen on it oh okay well that's that's
nice that you don't have to do that that's I've always thought that snow is the kind of thing I I love visiting but
I'm happy to not live in it you know these days you can go Orleans and Florida and visit it yeah weird strange
strange occurrences happening in far more ways than one yep um before we get
started big thank you to those of you who support us on our patreon at patreon.com inside show that's really
the thing you need to remember because I'll tell you in a second AI inside show is a is a commonality of how you can
find us but patreon.com insides show like Carrie one of our patrons thank you
Carrie for supporting us we could not do this show without you and if you are
watching live while we record welcome be sure to subscribe to the podcast that way you don't miss any future episodes
AI inside. show and then finally one more thing to let you know of which is
the new YouTube channel it's youtube.com insid show makes just a
little too much sense doesn't it um uh of course I misspelled it in the on
screen thing but if you go to AI insid show on YouTube and I think it's
actually slash AI insid show there we go this is how it's supposed to look uh just do a
search for AI inside show in the YouTube search box that should take you to our new channel I broke it away from myo my
channel just because I felt like the show needed its own channel to thrive in and you know anything that we do related
to the show can now appear on this YouTube channel so all the video versions of the show all of our live
streams from this point forward just go to AI insid show on YouTube and you can
find it there go subscribe please uh we've got a lot of subscribers in the like weeks since I launched it and I'm
really happy about that but we'd love to get those numbers up so head on over and thank you for the slight
confusion all right with that out of the way let's talk about the big news I think the big news this week even though
it's not like it's news but it's also not news because it's old and new news
is the Stargate project uh why is it new news well because now president uh Trump and Sam
Alman open AI uh have announced the Stargate project once again with a $500
billion investment over four years potentially over four years it's uh all
about increasing AI infrastructure development in the US of course cuz
everything um right now is is all us all the time uh including AI it's the
largest private AI investment to date I mean $500 billion investment that's uh
pretty massive $100 billion deployed immediately that starts in Texas and uh
Announcing The Stargate Project
I know you have thoughts on this I think um yes I do yeah so I'm I'm really
curious to hear what you what you think about this so um it's it's PR it's an announcement
fine um is it 100 million is it 500 million it's all just a number on paper well what we used to think of as paper
is now number on a screen it can change any minute it's not really devoted uh Elon Musk made fun of it and was jealous
of all the attention to it and so they don't have the money that's so funny that's so interesting especially when you consider
I mean in such a short amount of time how seemingly attached at the hip Elon
Musk and his own personal agenda seems to be with now president Trump's um kind
of agenda with Doge and and all these other things I guess that doesn't necessarily mean that a person like Elon
Musk can't disagree or whatever but it's not a matter of disagreement he's he's flat out saying like that there's
aspects of this that are untrue and that are you it's almost like yeah so he's then and then Sam's coming back and he's
getting all pissy and so the it's it's an eighth grade lunchroom that the New York Times is covering it was a lead
story in one of the papers today that that that that musk was fighting Alman I mean jeez so that's that's part of it
it's not new construction's already underway this was announced I think The
Insider um I'm sorry um uh the information uh reported uh
this I think last April so this has been going on back in April that's right um and then and then a few things struck me
who's not here Microsoft Amazon Google
right a whole bunch of players are not involved at all who is involved is open AI who's going through money like crazy
so they don't have any money and um Oracle and the other thing that the the
information had as a story this week which was interesting they were arguing that Oracle and um Salesforce should
merge and the reason for that was that Oracle doesn't have the money to keep going the way it is so is this the
losers um party the Los table yeah yeah
right um uh and I'm old enough to Remember When Donald Trump went to uh
was it Minnesota or Michigan um uh where was it Wisconsin they all they're all
the same they're all cold yeah um I I'm a midwesterner please don't take any
offense pleas um and announc the foxcon factory which is now nothing but an
empty Dome uh an or oh man I so remember that and like oh wow that's that's a
that's a huge deal and I do remember at the time people just saying yeah just wait I mean is it actually going to happen and yeah sure enough and the and
the and the the town and the state went through a lot of money uh to make this happen to clear the land to get all
ready and then crickets nothing right so um there was a lot of hype and a lot of
coverage of Stargate um and in the end so you build
data centers okay um I don't know that that necessarily says that that's going to um
uh just throwing more money at it is not necessarily going to get get you to the next uh Insight that's going to take uh
artificial intelligence Beyond where it is so fine um and I don't know where government is needed at all uh because
if people want to invest in uh an AI F go invest in AI nothing's stopping you
right now MH Soh yeah so I'm I'm I'm news
is yeah yeah yeah um to put the scale of the investment into some perspective
just to make some comparisons that I came across while looking into this twice the combined R&D spend of meta
Apple Amazon Netflix and Google in 2023 just FYI roughly the equivalent of the
group of the GDP of the United Arab Emirates uh yeah just some interesting
things but but meant I think largely meant you know from from president
Trump's perspective obviously meant to show that you know America means
business when it comes to artificial intelligence we don't we don't you know play second fiddle to anyone else on the
world stage when it comes to this we are the Supreme leaders of of artificial intelligence and what is any of this
mean I I don't know like who does it who does it serve directly I mean you know building this infrastructure structure
do we even know like like is that what AI for the government or for industry
it's an investment and you nobody's going to invest their money unless they see see the potential of a return uh and
again fine build the data centers I've got nothing against that but as we we'll know and by the way one important angle
of the story too is that Microsoft in this process basically freed open AI
from being tied to the hip and so now Microsoft is only the the the um host of
First Resort or they have they have the they have the opportunity to to um down
but open AI is no longer required to use open AI for all of its compute which may be a relief to Microsoft it may be part
of their negotiation uh of um the new cap table I have no idea that's just an
angle it's part of all this so all these players are involved here in all kinds of ways and who's not there who's there
how they are um but but the question I think you raised just then Jason is is
this going to be the scale that is necessary going forward is there a
business justification for it can we afford it is it necessary and I think
that the Chinese are giving us a um contrarian lesson
here segue to next story yeah no no indeed uh excellent well done uh deep
10:27
seek R1 believe is what you're talking about an open-source Chinese reasoning
How Chinese A.I. Start-Up DeepSeek Is Competing With Silicon Valley Giants
10:32
model and that's been getting some attention as well due to its uh it's
it's powerful performance um in things like math coding reasoning tasks it's
actually outperforming GPT 40 outperforming Cloud 3.5 Sonet on math
even though it's smaller and part of the reason why is what makes it kind of
unique here other than its open- source kind of um you know
o Open Source Beginnings is that it's trained not on these like massive vast
data sets but on pure reinforcement learning which essentially just means
that the model is improving through trial and error which really goes a long way to enhance its problem solving
abilities and in fact in the case of deep seek it jumped from
15.6% to 86.7% Simply by practicing just
practicing and trial and error and and that which really suggests that these
reasoning capabilities can be um can be tackled can be achieved without you know
just shuttling massive amounts of proprietary data into it um
11:47
instead kind of relying on the uh you know the effective training strategies
11:53
that are implemented and uh how that's done so and the other piece to this is that one of the reasons they had to do
this in a smaller scale is because they couldn't get the chips uh and they had limited number of
chips and Kade met and Megan uh Tobin in the time New York Times said and I'll quote here but the performance of The
Deep seek model raises questions about the unintended consequences of the American government's trade restrictions
the controls have forced researchers in China to get creative with a wide range of tools that are freely available on
the internet so do we need $500 billion to build a good usable AI is that a waste of
12:33
money are we are we just being American chest thumping uh you know we got to be
12:39
big for the sake of being big uh you know I remember so I'm sorry I'm going to do an Uncle Jeff moment here way back
when when I was at time Inc uh which at the time was a real company and still had lots of money um I was there this is
how old I am folks this is I was there at the time when if you wanted to if you needed to scan a photo and so that you
could print it in color you needed a huge uh machine as big as as big as a
dining room just gigantic scanner very expensive specialized equipment all
13:10
kinds of things and the company bought this one machine that was incompatible with all the other systems we had and I
being an ignorant just editor I wrote a me long memo saying this is stupid why are we doing this and I got scolded uh
in two ways one well it's their department and so it's their machine they can pick what they want
number two if timic is spending this much money on it it must be the best
right and there's that kind of of economic Macho especially when you tie it with
the Macho of technology and uh I think there's somebody should be doing a good story
just questioning the based on what deep seek apparently is doing and we don't know everything but it's it's open
enough it can be it can be examined um is that level of scale necessary is it
economically sensible is it what we're going to take to get to the next model or is it instead Insight that we need to
get to the next model and the next uh phase of how this operates so I have I'm I'm way too ignorant to answer those
questions but I at least will ask them yeah well and if if it served these
the development of these models up until now to to think of it through the lens of okay more data is is better for
training then it makes sense why some might believe that to still be the case
14:32
but I think what this tells me is sometimes when you're operating from a limited sometimes when you're operating
with limited resources it forces you to think about things differently and yes
you know what I mean and it seems like maybe right now the last couple of years you know the the hammer and nail analogy
is is you know that we we've been H and actually I don't know where I'm going with that analogy but in my mind it
works but is essentially like what has been working is the more like a
jackhammering nail yes yeah that's a good point it's like a jackhammer uh
with you know the amount of data that's being shoveled into these things because that must be the way to get them to be
to to uh be better models you know for better output and and better bigger
smarter all that kind of stuff but it turns out that you know maybe when you operate from that limited um opportunity
15:28
uh not having access to that and having to do things differently maybe you do come up with a system that is better or
15:35
or just different and it looks like that's what this is yeah and I hope that it's not going to require brute force uh
High scale data and compute because that means there'll be more players more competition more Innovation at lower
cost I hope I I I don't know whether there's really a lesson from Deep sick but I hope there is MHM yep available
for free via API if you're doing and I don't yes if you know what you're doing
you can get started right now with deep seek all right we're uh going to take super quick break and when we come back
I'll tell you about my little uh my field trip last couple of days and we can talk about the AI associated with
that that's coming up in a second well I have down here not one but
Samsung Galaxy Unpacked and Agents on phones
two little things that I wore around my neck during my time there are do you do
you save your confence badges like some people no I'm going to say something obnoxious I still
16:33
have mine from Davos yeah but I get I used I used I
used to take a lot of um Swag Bags home and my wife just has a fit with them
because as as every spouse does in the world and so I've gotten rid of most of those too yeah the the canvas bags we've got a
whole closet full of you know do you save the lanyards no I don't no okay I
don't I I never did and I've had moments here and there where I've had like lanyard um uh I don't know seen
other people's collection yes M that's the word I was looking for I was like oh maybe I should have but at this point
17:10
it's too late like if I was going to do that i' I've throw long since throwing away any of the ones that I wish I I
17:16
probably should have held on to and so at this point it doesn't matter that much to me um but anyways I have a
couple that haven't made it into the trash yet uh from yesterday's Samsung unpacked or Galaxy unpacked event which
I uh attended I went down Tuesday morning and you know they um for those
who don't know kind of how some of this stuff works this this was actually my first unpacked in person I've always
covered it from a distance when I worked at twit twit rarely if ever thought that
like going to an event like that made a lot of sense for their model I was like well why wouldn't we just cover it from
the studio we'll get the same amount of views and you know it doesn't make sense like what are we going to do having a
reporter on the around there um so I never really went so it was interesting from that perspective but uh Tuesday
morning you know get there and it's what they call content capture which is like an opportunity for certain members of
the press to go in and kind of play around with the devices before the announcements were ever made and capture
your content for whatever you're working on and then Wednesday which was yesterday they had the event from the um
stadium and um yeah so it was interesting it was it was fun it was big I mean you know you see on the live
stream it's that like gigantic like display Matrix that he W you know that
they all walk out on and everything and it's you know it's a it's cool to see it in person because it really is kind of
18:41
like a a technology um rock star a rock show or something you know but uh but
you know this this show is really more about artificial intelligence and I think this really fits into it because
18:54
you know at the end of the day where we are with smartphones right now is there is very little in the way of innovation
19:00
when it comes to Hardware um very small gains here and there but what companies
19:07
are really leveraging right now and really trying to point out that they're doing better than everyone else is the
artificial intelligence that is you know um driving the new updates and the new
features on their software and Samsung was all about it with Galaxy AI with um
they were you know they were touting agents so agents came up a number of times MH and
I think what I thought was interesting about that is there's a certain kind of definition that I think I'm forming
around agents and I feel like Samsung's agents are kind of like agent light or
it's like an agent First Step it's not these things that are doing all these things for you without you kind of
kicking it off or what I well I guess they are like essentially like one of the things they pointed out as as
agentic is you can um you you can collaborate with Galaxy AI uh talking to
Google Gemini talking to whatever Google Apps and Samsung apps you have installed
in your phone so I could do a voice command that is you know essentially
goes into my calendar and find the next five basketball you know games on my
schedule and drop those into Galaxy Notes or whatever and so like is that an
agent where it goes into the calendar it searches for all the entries that have something to do with basketball and then takes that information and puts it into
20:32
your Samsung Galaxy Notes like they would want that to be seen as agentry and I guess it kind of is but it's kind
20:39
of like agent light in my opinion atish yeah yeah getting uh yeah I mean
on my phone now I can't do that yeah right right so so that is a step and
it's a practical step but it's not a terribly impressive step is does does Samsung have its own model or is it
based primarily on using Gemini yeah using Gemini you didn't hear
about Bixby at all no um dead gone poor
Bixby yeah see that's the thing I don't know that bixby's dead I just think Samsung's like not feeding Bixby anymore
Uncle Bixby who we don't talk about anymore yeah yes if we stop if we just stop talking about Bixby people will
forget about Bixby I I don't we just stop feeding him we're not
killing him we're just not allowing him to live so what's uh in the story I didn't
really kind of understand the personal data engine and the AI select so yeah so
um so personal data engine essentially my understanding of it
is is on a platform perspective on how you use your phone it's essentially a
way to collect over time information about how you're using your phone the
apps you use what you do with them where you go I mean it's really collecting a lot of information about how how you
interact with your phone and kind of from an ambient perspective how you live
with just with the phone with you and the idea being that it collects these data points all on device so that it can
inform some of the AI that's happening on the device to either suggest things for you or you know that sort of stuff
and maybe that's where kind of the agentic claws come in at some point that
seemed like it was setting the stage for some to me it seemed like it was setting the stage for something down the line to
say you know we're taking all this all this information that the phone can
collect about you and we can put it to work somehow somewhere down the line but
I I don't know that we're necessarily seeing the work yet but the foundation is there right and I think that could be
that could be cool if people are okay with the fact that there is you know all
of this collection slash understanding of how you use your device happening you
know it's kind of like the uh Microsoft recall thing where you know it's it's neat that it could do that but people
you know at least initially felt weirded out by that uh yeah it sounds like
there's nothing here that says oh my god I've got to get a Samsung because of that well it's value added to the phone
that they have yeah I mean you you asked about um AI select and essentially AI
select is this like um it's it's almost like a a component of like project Astra
let's say because really what it is is what's on my screen you know analyze the
contents of the screen and based on what you see there suggest actions so if you see a phone number you could suggest the
23:52
action to call or if you see you know any number of things what whatever those actions are I'm not sure right I would
23:58
need to play around with it to see what it actually offers up but yeah there's really there there is I think your your
spot on there is nothing that we heard about yesterday from a software
perspective especially um where I was just like ah this is why you absolutely have to have this and I think being
24:18
there at the event I heard that from a lot of people that were there just kind of you know and this is I think a good
topic for this show which is just like this General kind of like numbness
around everything being artificial intelligence as the important you know
uh technology the important new feature set I mean you you stop hearing you you
stop hearing anything anymore when you hear the word you know AI repeated a
thousand times during a presentation yeah you're you're right and it's it's like the over we we've made fun of 5G 5G
5G 5G oh yeah yeah uh back in the day uh and that was just speed was all it was
right now ai ai ai ai has become meaningless to great got to got to get the current terminology so people know
you're you're on the track and I remember yeah that's a good comparison with 5G because when that happened and
every phone that came out had 5G at the end of the name of it you know cuz they really just had to get it in there make
25:17
sure you knew that this phone had 5G and and I remember saying at the time I can't wait for the day when 5G is so
boring that we don't have to call it out every time and we kind of we we eventually got there I do think we'll
get there eventually with AI or maybe we won the problem is 5G stood for you knew what it meant it meant speed yeah AI
25:35
doesn't have a clear definition because it could be a million things it already is a million things it can be translation it can be transcription it
can be agentic it could be all these things search um creativity uh so it's
not going to be sufficient to say AI inside yeah it's going to have to say we
have show right right yes yes it's because we have it all inside here
26:00
layers uh right so um uh right for them
26:06
they've got to have to say more yeah um Circle search you know got some upgrades
to where it can recognize when a phone number is on the screen and and asked to call it you little little quality of
26:19
life improvements which which is great yeah yeah they yeah I just I think the
question that I come back to is like my sister she's a Samsung user but she has a pretty dated Samsung phone I think at
this point and if she was to go into her phone company and get a new phone and
they said Oh and it does this and this is is that the kind of thing that she would be like oh really it does those
things or would she be like yeah I don't care just and I I kind of guess it's the
ladder and um so I don't know companies really really see the need to just push
and and punish you with the amount of AI smarts that they've put into it and I
wonder if we're kind of at and I actually I don't wonder I think we are at a point where aot for a lot of people
the second they start hearing the AI Avalanche they start tuning out and worse they start rolling their eyes and
like oh my God here we go again you know what I mean well it's also hard to say
that something is inside mean Intel inside um and and but the hardware can
still excit so so the story that you had a share um had I think the ultra in the
pictures because you could see it was big and I get visions of my old Nexus 7 and what excited me was oh that Hardware
looks nice oh do I want that oh I don't know yeah right um but uh the oh it has
it does this it does that and part of the problem is that I've got to figure out how to make it do that and will it do it in a way that's relevant to me and
is it more just cruff and the problem for Samsung of course is all those years they added on all kinds of functionality
nobody wanted or used I think they're better now right but still uh
reputationally I don't know if I'm ready for the bridge to Samsung but yeah no they are I mean from a hardware
perspective you know Samsung does a really great job with their Hardware design um they're you know their design
is is always just really beautifully done and uh you know I have the s24
ultra which was last year's model and I mean like I I love when I I have it in
my hand like it feels this feels like a beautiful elegant smartphone and I get
that from the s25 ultra that I saw you know while I was there and everything their their phones are really really
wonderfully designed yeah their Hardware is always nice but um but you know the
um kind of innovation around Hardware you know they've really they've really slowed down there and each year the
devices are very minimally changed between them it's like it's like last year's this year's s25 Ultra versus s24
29:00
Ultra look in most ways almost identical um and so there the only place that they
29:07
really can easily in quotes um innovate seems to be that they're putting all
29:13
their their eggs into the software basket and right now it's just it's AI season yeah and so everything ends up AI
All God's Children got to have ai yep everybody's got to have their own gotta
gotta collect them all so anyways it was fun though um one one
29:32
just we uh like separate anecdote um if you've ever watched the unpacked event
on the live stream you see the huge stage with all the huge like the gigantic displays and everything and
29:45
wraparounds and it just looks massive and at the end of yesterday's event I was actually behind the stage where they
had this like exper product experience area and uh when they were shuttling us
out I walked the opposite direction of where I was supposed to go because I was like I wonder if I could kind of get a
glimpse of behind those displays and all the lights were on and it was all lit up
and everything and oh my goodness from it was like a Marvel of Technology like
how how the back 200 screens oh I mean far more than that it was massive yes
all put together and like beautifully cabled and it was I got some video of it
30:27
and I was just like man that is like that is amazing like somebody thought that up and create crafted that and it's
just a cool technological accomplishment you know I I wrote a book in the object lesson series about the magazine is
object and I'm fascinated about screen is object and it really hit me Jason and this is off topic but I like the topic
um uh one one day a couple years ago walking down the street in New York and at at every subway stop now there is a
huge screen for advertising of course right mhm and you know it's probably 5T
tall and 3T wide something like that and you think about back in the day the
expense of a screen the expense of having a screen of any sort and of course in the cath ray tube the depth of
it and the Heat and all of that it's amazing how and and newark's nework
Airport's new Terminal A same thing at every gate there's like a 10t high
screen and it's just yes just a screen no big deal it's just a screen they're such a commodity now like it's
just massive screens and it's just no big deal I mean you go to you go to Vegas it was just a Vegas CES and I feel
like every building there now is a you know 120 story screen yeah or the the
sphere you know everything's just this massive high resolution screen it's it's really impressive where we are now
31:53
versus where we used to be and it was a lot more expensive and a lot less
31:58
impressive yes yep yep well um this is
New Google education tools for 2025
uh not related at all but it's Google uh Google announced a bunch of Education Focus tools and uh in particular there
is an AI part of this announcement for the classroom uh coming to Chromebooks with Google workspace for Education Plus
and essentially this brings uh for those uh Chromebooks in the classroom uh is my
understanding anyways tools like notebook LM uh Gemini app
integration um all this integrated into Learning Management Systems um for
teaching and for Learning and uh also you know integrated into Chromebook
pluses I guess for Education which reminds me that youve got a Chromebook plus and I'm yes I do thank you how how
you're liking that but um anyways more yeah more uh com to the classroom it
seems aimed this this seemed aimed high school because they say um Gemini safer
learning with Gemini 14 students uh tailor vocabulary lists for
Gemini in classroom an interesting list um save time with gems I don't know what
that for you integrate Google AI into your LMS I should know what an LMS is I
don't know learning management system thank you very much as a parent you know these stuff um uh Google Plus with AI
build in as you just said uh safer learning with admin tools of course they're always going to slap on a lot of admin tools which already exist for um
both uh work workplace and for uh Chromebooks so that's that's there um
new features for read along in classroom video Creation with Google vids new
devices for uh teachers and students I don't know what that's going to be so I'm glad that they're still investing in
33:52
education offering things in education so so good Google vids threw that out
33:58
and I was like oh wait a minute I remember hearing about that it was uh but but then I feel like I we heard
34:04
about it there's nothing more nothing but yeah what is it to
34:10
create polished videos with the help of AI generate vo yeah just that's all it is so yeah I think it's to make power
points I totally forgot about vids that's right um I certainly haven't seen it appear anywhere is this only in they
34:23
were using it for sales trading videos was the original idea so they've imported this education it's the power pointing of the
world right okay interesting I wonder if my my daughters will end up you know
because they they have Chromebooks through their class and you know use all the Chrome uh Chrome tools and
everything so that's interesting so then more so you know seeing the AI tools
integrated into the devices that students are using and uh yeah I wonder how uh wonder
how teachers feel about that that's what teachers are welcoming other teachers almost certainly very resistant to
something like that well the other problem is that it's not just the teachers it's whoever is the gatekeeper for technology in the schools saf that's
true I mean so I'm I'm now a visiting professor at ston Brook University which is a a stem School an R1 school it's you
know amazing technology there but I had to sit through two hours of stupid
videos about you know how to be safe on technology how to do a and at one point they say you know you got to have a safe
password with 87 different characters and written in Sanskrit the next one says no that's all old you shouldn't do
that they don't re by the videos and so it's how the tech uh Gods of the
organization let you use this stuff yes interesting that is true that is because
they always want know it's no it's more to support it's more to maintain no I don't want to do it yeah uh and I can
imagine in a given School District where everybody's overworked and has plenty of problems I don't know how hard
this into the teacher's hands yes right that's one more thing to have to figure
out and Yeah troubleshoot around it'd be interesting sometime Jason if we if we found somebody a teacher who is using AI
in the classroom just to quiz them about how that's working for them and when what's happening yeah yeah what are
those challenges yeah and uh what what what are some of the success stories I'd love to know about that too um real
quick how how is the Chromebook plus do you um so I can say where I got it yeah
oh okay so this was this was from Jason it was Jason thank you very much um it
uh the screen is beautiful it's thin as can be it's a Samsung um uh it doesn't
have uh touchcreen which I wished for but not that's not a killer but as you
warn me uh they added a numeric keypad three a three level numeric keypad on the side which means that the keyboard
is off centered to the screen and it's still driving me a little nuts it I
could never get I couldn't get myself used to it yeah I just could so I'm kind of used to it now I put down um tape
over the uh over the the numeric keypad because I'm never going to use it and
instead of hitting the delete key I'm often hitting the minus key or whatever and uh so I put tape over there and then
I put tape on the F and J formerly known as the home row typing class right so I
could feel automatically where I was without having to look because I was constantly having to look at the keyboard to orient
My Fingers um if it were not for that if they had just gotten rid of that numeric keypad this would be a perfect machine
uh now the other thing is I'm I'm I'm getting used to the keyboard but then when I go back to my Mac keyboard uh which is what I I use for the shows then
of course I'm usually off yes it it it it trans it transmits like a
37:56
virus so but I'm happy to have it the fan hardly comes on when it does it's
quiet I beautiful screen uh so thank you very much oh jeez yeah absolutely happy
to to put it in your hands because I I probably wasn't going to use it and the the The Off Center keyboard aspect of it
it just threw me off so much that I was like I just I can't there's a lot of Chromebooks and a lot of uh of of uh
Windows machines that have that that have the Newar keyboard on on yes they
do it's not rare no and I actually did get into a brief conversation with
someone at the Samsung convention who had the s a Samsung um Windows laptop
that was very similar to the one that you got but you know with Windows or whatever and had the numeric and he had
38:46
no problems with it I just like yeah I just I think Windows users have high tolerance for maybe that's it high
tolerance for pain yeah um Microsoft and Google both
offering more AI for Less I definitely noticed this I'm I'm sure you did too in my um so I have had on my personal Gmail
Google Workspace enables the future of AI-powered work for every business
account I've had like a free year of their AI whatever and I had originally
when I got that offer I wanted to like transfer it over to my business which is for this uh for the work that I do for
podcast and stuff and uh they wouldn't allow me to transfer it over so I was like okay so I'll just keep it in
personal I just don't have as many uses for it there um in order to get it on the business account it would have been
39:32
something like 20 bucks a month or something which I like okay not worth it to me um but now suddenly all those uh
Gemini hooks are appearing uh Google workspace now getting Gemini
included included yes but the plan for everyone increases by $2 per month so
39:50
you're not paying $20 and it's but you don't have a choice but to pay $2 more
as essentially it's not as expensive as Netflix but not as much fun either um yeah I don't know how useful do you find
it like on Gmail I have uh I need to force myself
to use it more because the handful of times that I've thought to use it for something I haven't gotten it to do
roughly what I wanted it to do and I'm like oh you know and so I'm underwhelmed and so I'm less likely to do it again
right um I don't know it's it's it's almost just like a slightly better
search is really what it seems like to me yeah it'll it'll do something it'll summarize um email thread I don't I
don't really do much of the sum yeah I don't do that my emails no I don't really I'm not I'm not no longer you
know going through companies where I had 40 email threads right so I don't need as much uh a b um it'll suggest writing
40:51
to me so I said okay I'll try this once and I just had it'll be good to catch up and it was responding
it would be really great to have a cup of coffee uh in person soon well no I just I don't want to say that
Exclamation point Exclamation point you know it makes everything more um enthusiastic than I am don't you know me
I'm not enthusiastic enthusiastic you're so right um that's exactly it and then I
also are are you using help me read have you gotten that one it's an experiment in Chrome so in Chrome uh anytime I can
I can double click and I get uh in addition to uh my choices about going
back or forward or translating or any of that I now have a little box help me read experiment and it will summarize
any um web page I'm on SO okay you know when I get to
certain columns like on on twit this week Leo sent sent us to some uh
somebody's write up of something that went on about 87 screen loads so I just remember to do that and summarize it for
41:53
me and I said okay good now if Leo brings it up I can talk about it um totally right you know that's fine U but
it'll it's it's rag so it will only respond to what is on the screen MH if
you ask a related question that comes to mind which I did once it said can't find
that answer here nope don't know so I want that as functionality too it's just it's it's it's uh siloed too much in how
the AI is presented but it's all experimental it's all interesting I'll use it more you'll use it more and we'll
figure out what we like and I think that's the point right Google wants everybody to use it more so now it it
Copilot is now included in Microsoft 365 Personal and Family
belongs to everybody yep and Microsoft of course doing the same yeah they're all trying
to get more users on this stuff because there's there's no there's not much of a barriered entry here yeah I can go to
meta AI for free anytime I want I can go to lots of different places and get
AI yep yep so um yeah co-pilot now
included 365 personal and family users uh again in that case subscription cost
42:58
raising by $3 so you are paying for it um but I think it's interesting that you
brought up you know uh read for me or whatever because I think that ties into a story that after the break I came
across this I was like oh that's a that's a good discussion conversation to have so we're going to take a quick
43:16
break and then we're going to talk uh talk a little bit about cognitive
offloading that's coming up in a second
The Shadow of Cognitive Laziness in the Brilliance of LLMs
all right cognitive offloading essentially when we when we shift our
our critical thinking tasks to other tools which when you mentioned before
the break you know summarize this story for me which by the way is something that I do too because sometimes it's
43:47
it's a really nice timesaver it's like you know what I don't have time to to read this entire top to bottom thing
43:52
what are is it the highlights or is it worth reading yes exactly um I just need to know enough to know
and uh some you know and and so you fire that off get a shorter condensed thing gives me what I need move on with my
life well so cognitive offloading and and this study actually that this uh
there's an article that I put in here from Psychology today talks about how Reliance on generative Ai and
specifically in the terms of the study it was just chat GPT 4.0 that they tested um impact learning impacts uh our
motivation our performance and um the study essentially
says that it erodes over time it erodes critical thinking it erodes reflective
processes that would normally be the building blocks of lifelong learning let's say so when we do a cognitive
offload of reading the full story to give us the summary we might get what we
need I think this was this was kind of like the the long and short of it the shortterm impact is great we get what we
need right now we can write that essay you know uh with with the tasks that it
lists or we have the the bullet points that we need to do the thing immediately right now but
longterm we don't have the overtime this development of critical thinking skills
and comprehension and everything because we aren't we aren't challenging ourselves to do that in the same way way
that we were prior to summarize this for me so I've got a shorter thing to to go
from as one example and I think that's interesting I I I've wondered this about
myself because sometimes I use these tools as an assistant for writing not necessarily write this this article or
this thing for me but write a starting point and then I can go from there and kind of craft something that works for
myself and uh I do wonder if I'm doing myself harm by doing that you know in the long term
what do you think you so not Sur education you got you probably got a better perspective I think it's a
reasonable article I think this is worth um and it's based on a paper based on an academic paper in a study and I think
it's absolutely worth studying no question about it I'm all in favor of that U and the article was not panicky
at all so I'm not going to have moral Panic go across however it may be a
little too soon for concern now you might argue with me well rather be too
soon than too late um but I think that we don't have enough experience with these tools and how people are really
46:33
using them I don't think student I could be wrong about this I was going to say I don't think students are necessarily habitually using jat now but I think
46:40
they may be using it more than I know um but still uh uh I think that's one thought the other is I I come back to
Plato's fedis where it is said Socrates fedas
one of PL works okay yes okay where it is said the Socrates obviously complained about writing and we've heard
this a million times and he said that that people who write will cease to exercise memory because they rely on
that which is written calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves and and but by means of
external marks yeah right so you can go through that you can go through uh the you know
we didn't have dictionaries until um basically after after print um
encyclopedia is came along later um and uh so those those devices were seen in
some quarters as kind of lazy as as as a as a reader digest view right speaking
of which reader digest was that well you don't you don't want to read the whole article on Harper we'll give you the short version of it um once or twice I
had an article i' had written for like TV Guide which is already that short and they made it shorter in in reader digest
47:51
um I mean but that's exactly what you're talking about right like some page we've had this we've had this make it shorter
I'm going to read that instead uh Harper's magazine in my other book magazine I point out that it started in 1850 with the idea that we're going to
find the best of what's out there so you don't have to go through it all we'll read it all so you don't have to and then of course we go to the calculator
and the fears about that and the worries about that and then we go to the worries about spell check we go to the worries about uh losing penmanship I just saw a
48:17
story about that last week uh no one's writing anymore uh and now we see Stories the Atlantic had one one of
their normal Panic stories that nobody's reading anymore because of this stuff um but is that necessarily bad one thing
48:30
i' the other thing I'd like to explore from this article then I'll shut up is
um if if we offload some cognitive effort does that free up a student from
more creative effort does that free them up to get to the idea quicker and not
zone out uh what might the benefits be and how might we um craft curricula
around that so I think it's it's a fact of life it's going to be here it's worthy of study but I think that we need
to look at things in a more of a full circle of uh risk and reward and how we
find both yeah yeah it is uh it is very interesting I mean I I do um leverage
these tools more and more and it's it's been something from a from a for me what
I've what I've wondered about is kind of from a writing skills perspective and you know two three four
years ago when I Was preparing for an episode of a podcast I would you know if I Was preparing a story I'd have the
story up on one screen I'd have my notepad on the other and i' go through the story and pull out the pieces of
information that I thought were important and then I put that into kind of an organiza organizational thing and
often I would do that whether I was the one reading you know or like like um
conveying the story on the podcast or not primarily because doing that process helped me understand it better and I had
a more of a felt sense of what that story meant by go by going through that
work and you know in the last year I've been leveraging the AI tools more and
more and you know trying to maximize my time because I've got so many different things I need to do now that I didn't
before and so any way that I can shave time down to do it all I'm going to
explore it and uh so sometimes you know I I will have a summary of an article
and then I as I need to I will touch into the article for for pieces of
information that I need but you know I'm kind still kind of writing the thing but I wonder if the like this like condensed
approach if I'm actually learning less from a long-term standpoint like did the
stuff that I prepared for five years ago did did that have more of a likelihood of sticking with me than the stuff that
I'm preparing now you know or if you read the Cliff's Notes for War and Peace
yeah but you weren't really ever going to read war in peace right right are you better off or not and I don't know the
51:08
answer to that that's true that's a good point I've never read have you you I haven't
51:15
nope I haven't okay I should but now you know what I would do now I would listen to
51:20
it yeah is that cognitive overload no it's uh I mean Cliff's Notes were always
51:26
made fun of for this purpose listening to books was made fun of that's not really reading too totally true and I
now uh rely on listening to books I get mad when books I want to if I if I read it for research I have to read it in
paper because I have to mark it up and do all kinds of things if I read it for pleasure uh or just interest I really
want an audio book now because I can extend my reading and we used to make fun of that and I made fun of that but
yeah yeah a Daniel makes a really good point uh in in the in the comments that as a dyslexic he finds the process of
using AI helps him learn more uh I think it's an excellent point you know Daniel
that that happened I forget what it was I think something I said on on on twig uh where somebody came in and said here
is my perspective because of my life is that I use this tool in a way that you don't but I find it useful and I think
that that different lived experience and different use is so important to to understand here so thank you for that
interesting yeah thank you Daniel um and also Lou is apparently wants to uh find
52:28
a partner to uh read War and Peace with if someone else will commit to reading War and Peace yeah you're going to be
52:33
together for five years but it's okay you're gonna be reading that for a long time finally because I know we do
need to let you go here in a few minutes a Reddit user uh felt ill after a mild workout dismissed the symptoms to things
‘ChatGPT saved my life’: Reddit user credits AI chatbot for diagnosing his rare medical condition
like dehydration and high caffeine eventually as we all do nowadays when we're feeling yucky turn to chat chat
GPT which suggested uh what is it Rob robd
dosis robolis I'm not sure we have to ask CHP how to say that yeah and probably would
know uh which is a serious condition uh with muscle breakdown that's harmful to
the kidneys from there sought medical attention and doctors confirmed that diagnosis and that person was uh
hospitalized for a week lived to tell the tail and uh now I imagine uses chat
GPT for everything uh sorry rabdo miysis rabdo
myis mysis okay yes that that that checks out I'm like you looking at it
53:39
while while hearing that I'm like okay my eyes didn't see it that way the by the way was that a cognitive uh offload
for me yes it was and it was very nice I went I double clicked on the word and right there was the speaker and I got
the word it was great apparently the redditor also used chat GPT to interpret labas results I
wonder how the doctors felt about that but I'd be very careful about using I
mean is bad enough to go to Dr Google and and Dr Facebook but Dr chat GPT we
know that it doesn't know facts and gets things wrong how often do we say this right
nonetheless it's vital and this is great because it did find correlation and made
a suggestion that turned out to be valuable so to me the key is how do we make uh the chats less um
dogmatic and sure in their responses and more tentative well I don't know but it
could be that this is a correlation you might want to go to your doctor and ask about this it could be something else
too it could be nothing I'm not going to say we got lawyers I don't know um but
and that may be frustrating but I think it's important to then take you back to expertise yes 100% super important to
not rely on these things but I mean but you and and you know what it's going the
stories like this are going to happen inevitably oh yes people are still going to do it and they're going to get it
55:04
right there are also probably examples of this story where people got the wrong diagnosis and that of course didn't get
55:10
written about you know what I mean one of my favorite stories that I wrote about long ago I think in what would Google do um a reporter talked to me and
55:17
he in Facebook was just saying you know weird I've been Fallen lately and this happened and and some of it was in
private and just things that he said on Facebook and suddenly he started getting ads for treatments for multiple
sclerosis H and and so he went to the doctor and
indeed was diagnosed with Ms wow and it wasn't as if and you the first reaction
many people was well that's surveillance capitalism that's creepy and it knows too much well it it helped him yeah
right and it was certainly AI of its sort uh when this happened that made a correlation for the sake of the
advertiser yeah right and and so those correlations what we're talking about too isn't just
the technology we're talking about correlations correlations are not causation correlations have to be judged
um uh cautiously but that is the basis of machine learning uh especially in
generative machine learning generative AI is all about correlation and correlations have
value yeah 100% fascinating interesting stuff well Jeff thank you so much for uh
hanging out with me today I do know that I need to let you go Jeff jarvis.com is
where folks should go right now and Order the book the web we weave or the
good parenthesis or magazine or all three what a what a what a schoras sport of me you will read like you've never
read before if you bought all three books thank you Jeff this is wonderful Jeff jarvis.com always love doing this
show with you and great to have you here everything uh that all of you watching
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