Google Changes Search for the First Time in 25 Years

00:00:00:05 - 00:00:24:17
Jason Howell
Coming up next, Jeff Jarvis and I dig deep into Google I o 2026. I was on the ground at the event just yesterday and there is a ton to cover. Gemini 3.5 flash the biggest search upgrade in 25 years. A 24 over seven personal AI agent called spark. Their long awaited and still waiting audio glasses and a whole lot more.

00:00:24:19 - 00:00:47:23
Jason Howell
We dive deep on that. We've also got Andre Karpathy making a surprise move to join Anthropic Anthropic, acquiring the SDK startup that OpenAI and Google both rely on. Plus, I show off how to use cloud design to help ideate new logo that you see in your podcast feed. And there's a lot more that has nothing to do with Anthropic and Google's.

00:00:47:23 - 00:01:04:17
Jason Howell
Well, that's all coming up next on this episode of the AI Inside podcast.

00:01:04:19 - 00:01:23:17
Jason Howell
Welcome to another episode of AI Inside the Show, where we take a look at the AI that is layered throughout the world of technology, from coast to coast. Took me to Mountain View, which is not actually very far from from me, and definitely not coast to coast for me, but would be coast to coast for you. Jeff Jarvis, it's good to see you.

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Jason Howell
I was there virtually.

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Jeff Jarvis
It's also good to see you and our new look. I like it.

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Jason Howell
Yeah, yeah, kind of nice. I'm sure people who, you know, if you've if you found your podcast this week and you were like, well, things look a little different. I just, I, you know, I got a wild hair. I was like, you know what?

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Jeff Jarvis
He's been watching too many home redecoration shows. You know.

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Jason Howell
Actually, it totally ties in with this show. I mean, aside from the fact that, like, yes, I redid the podcast start and I'm really proud with the way happy with where it ended up. But I used Clod Design not to create it, but to help me analyze it. And so we can talk about that a little bit later.

00:02:03:08 - 00:02:22:21
Jason Howell
I'll show you the hilarious results because it's hilarious, but it still got me to a good place. So it's interesting stuff, but but yeah, there's that, there's the daily that I've been doing and I've been, I've been having a great time with it. It's it's great. It keeps me really kind of like on top of things.

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Jeff Jarvis
So you didn't have that second week regret. What did I do? What did I commit myself to?

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Jason Howell
It's well, often with this show, like I'm just usually, so often, so busy throughout the week that I don't have time to, like, sit down and read the news and tell. It's like the day before the show and I'm like, gotta cram for a test. That's too much. I mean, yeah, and this way it just kind of it's like slow trickle sort of thing.

00:02:45:20 - 00:02:52:26
Jason Howell
And then we're as we will, you know, I will thank a bunch of new patrons later because a bunch of people are like, okay, yes, sign me up.

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Jeff Jarvis
Wow. Yay.

00:02:54:13 - 00:03:16:01
Jason Howell
So yeah, but what I've done and I won't do too much housecleaning here at the top. But the daily is still free through the Patreon through the end of this week. Patreon.com show. If you want to take a listen to these episodes, all you got to do is become a free member of the Patreon. You just sign up and you will get notified when the new episodes hit.

00:03:16:03 - 00:03:39:20
Jason Howell
Starting next Monday, it switches to a paid tier perk. So $5 and up it basically $5 a month and you get what a what is it, 20 some odd episodes of a podcast that didn't exist more than a couple of weeks ago in your Patreon feed, and actually in your page, in your pod catcher, because you actually get a podcast feed that you can load into whatever you use to listen to podcasts.

00:03:39:20 - 00:04:00:18
Jason Howell
But in talking with you, Jeff, and just kind of thinking about it, I've decided that one episode per week will always be free. And I think that way if you become a free member of the Patreon, you know, I don't know what day that is. Maybe it's every Friday, or maybe, you know, because then you get the Wednesday Normal episode and then a Friday news update or whatever.

00:04:00:25 - 00:04:04:22
Jason Howell
That way you can continue to get some value out of it, and maybe someday you'll be like, you.

00:04:04:22 - 00:04:15:12
Jeff Jarvis
Don't want the spider to the fly. Once you see one once a week, you're going to want it every day. You can't be like, how can you not have adjacent a day, right?

00:04:15:14 - 00:04:19:15
Jason Howell
So anyways. Wow. The last few weeks for me have been.

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Jeff Jarvis
Full of.

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Jason Howell
Impulse, but I'm happy at the result of the impulse. It's like, oh, I should do that. Okay, I'm going to.

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Jeff Jarvis
Do that. Oh my.

00:04:26:06 - 00:04:39:17
Jason Howell
God, what did I do? I did that and then I'm happy that I did that. So anyways, so that's that. But you know what else I did? I went to Google I o yesterday and boy that was a day. So you were watching the live stream?

00:04:39:18 - 00:04:57:27
Jeff Jarvis
I watched the live stream. Yeah. With with Micah and Leo over the other place. Okay. That's a club only event, so not as many people see it. Got it. But it's a way to have company. Well do it otherwise. When I've been at IO, I sat next to Jason. Yeah. And you kind of like. Oh, is it a big deal?

00:04:57:29 - 00:04:59:06
Jeff Jarvis
Oh, yeah.

00:04:59:08 - 00:05:01:15
Jason Howell
You need to get you back at IO is what needs to happen.

00:05:01:17 - 00:05:28:06
Jeff Jarvis
Well, they invited me this year, but it's just not worth the flight, especially in my infirm condition. United Airlines, six hours with my bad back right now. No. Yeah, yeah, but. But because. Because I don't really want to see the keynote. I want to see what they're showing off around the kind of show they put on. Yeah. And before we even get to the keynote, let me just ask real quickly, because the keynote didn't touch on Android without a week before.

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Jeff Jarvis
It didn't touch on, you know.

00:05:30:02 - 00:05:32:15
Jason Howell
2 or 3 mentions of Android, maybe through the entire.

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Jeff Jarvis
They didn't mention the Google book, which I thought they would even.

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Jason Howell
Yeah, they didn't even mention.

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Jeff Jarvis
It to be more, they mentioned, I think, what else they left out, but there was stuff in past years, hardware obviously in the past they have the glasses, but that's it. Yeah. So what about the, the, the tents that they have around? Did they show those other things there or was absolutely everything just air AI?

00:05:58:21 - 00:06:18:15
Jason Howell
Well, I mean, yeah, it's mostly AI. I mean, pretty much what you saw on the keynote was the real priority for Google continues to be the priority. It's part of the reason why they do the Android show a week in advance is because it's kind of like clearing the deck for the thing that's their real, you know, concrete, large scale effort and commitment.

00:06:18:18 - 00:06:34:01
Jason Howell
I wasn't surprised at all that there was no Google book there. They were really tight lipped on on Google Book the week before, and I would have been really surprised that they'd be that that tight lipped and then only a week later, show you the the full deal. So they're going to hold on to that and build some excitement around that.

00:06:34:02 - 00:06:58:25
Jason Howell
They did have glasses. And so, you know, that was one thing that they talked about on stage was the Android XR with Shahram Azadi who leads that team. And you know, and so there were ways while you were there to try out their AI glasses. The thing that's interesting about that though, is like we've now seen at two, this is the third consecutive Google I o where we've seen the glasses.

00:06:59:02 - 00:07:21:29
Jason Howell
Right. The first one it was it was a super tease. Right. It was that one video of of Google contextualizing with with what eventually became Gemini Live. But at the time it wasn't called Gemini live. And and then, you know, the the woman's identifying a bunch of things and then she picks up glasses. And that was the big wild moment in the audience was like, oh my goodness.

00:07:21:29 - 00:07:43:25
Jason Howell
The glasses can see things and, you know, contextualize and you could talk to them. That's amazing. And then last year we saw them and you could demo them. If you were there you could test them out. Here we are a year later and it's still like, yep, coming soon. They gave you more information about the Warby Parker and Gentle Monster collaboration for frames than they showed off with.

00:07:44:02 - 00:07:46:02
Jason Howell
You know, a couple of those frames look like.

00:07:46:03 - 00:07:47:26
Jeff Jarvis
Did they give you a little like.

00:07:47:29 - 00:07:50:03
Jason Howell
No, no, no no, we have no detail.

00:07:50:05 - 00:07:51:20
Jeff Jarvis
That doesn't make it real enough yet. Yeah.

00:07:51:21 - 00:07:54:09
Jason Howell
No, it's still kind of like coming in the fall.

00:07:54:11 - 00:08:09:00
Jeff Jarvis
I was surprised that a lot of the consumer press coverage led with the glasses. Yeah. I'm going to ask you in a second what your main headline was from the event from headlines. But the glasses is catching up to meta. It's fine. Lattice there.

00:08:09:01 - 00:08:13:06
Jason Howell
It is catching up to me. That's kind of my point exactly. It's kind of like two years later.

00:08:13:07 - 00:08:15:23
Jeff Jarvis
So fine, you should catch up. That's okay.

00:08:15:25 - 00:08:20:07
Jason Howell
But which and and also which is not to discount my excitement about the glasses because.

00:08:20:07 - 00:08:23:20
Jeff Jarvis
I agree. Agreed. I'm glad they have that. They should.

00:08:23:23 - 00:08:33:18
Jason Howell
Yeah. I mean, you know, I have the the meta Oakley's and they're fine. Like for what they do they're fine. But I don't care for meta AI like I just that's.

00:08:33:19 - 00:08:42:07
Jeff Jarvis
And it's not tied into the rest of your ecosystem of information. This thing will be tied into your email and your maps and your preferences and all the things they showed about Gemini. So okay.

00:08:42:08 - 00:09:04:12
Jason Howell
It's tied tied into that. It's also a familiar, chat bot experience for me, like a very familiar with with Gemini Live. I'm very familiar with Gemini and kind of the the ways that it, you know, the strengths that it has and how to interact with it and everything. And I did test them out again this time the the monocular version, which is the one display version.

00:09:04:12 - 00:09:10:12
Jason Howell
And yeah, and it was still the prototype hardware. It wasn't the Warby Parker, the gentle monster frames.

00:09:10:14 - 00:09:15:26
Jeff Jarvis
Because we don't know when the when the monocular version is coming next year we think right.

00:09:15:27 - 00:09:23:21
Jason Howell
Right, right. They're saying like the audio glasses. That's what they were calling them. Right. Audio glasses. Yeah I think so. Like that.

00:09:23:23 - 00:09:24:05
Jeff Jarvis
Later this.

00:09:24:05 - 00:09:42:00
Jason Howell
Year, it was a term that I hadn't heard before. I was like, oh, is that what you're calling it? Yeah, that's that's later this year. And then the display, like I was talking to someone, Max spear who was showing me the glasses. And I want to say that he's, he's mentioned something about by the end of the year, the display ones might come, but.

00:09:42:01 - 00:09:47:06
Jeff Jarvis
Still, I don't believe it. We'll go to the. We'll be at the fourth io to see those classes. Yeah.

00:09:47:07 - 00:09:54:23
Jason Howell
All right. But I will say having experienced them multiple times now, they're pretty darn cool. Good, good. And I look forward to that. I'm not going to happen.

00:09:54:23 - 00:09:58:15
Jeff Jarvis
But there's bigger news. So I'm curious what was your headline from the whole event?

00:09:58:18 - 00:10:38:15
Jason Howell
I think my headline, what I kept coming back to throughout the day is Google's strategy with AI is bringing everything to everything. It's like it's like this two tiered system of, all right, this year we've got all this new stuff that's coming to Gemini and last year's new stuff that came to Gemini now goes to everything else. And so it's constantly like every which which is a little confusing when you were talking and we had this conversation last year about AI mode and like, why would I use the AI in AI mode when it does all the same things that the AI and Gemini does?

00:10:38:15 - 00:11:00:03
Jason Howell
Mostly, but it's inside of the search product, not Gemini. And I mean, I mean, I do use AI mode. It's I think my point is that so many of these products do a lot of the same things. So the question that I always or the confusion that I often have is like, why do I choose to use it over here instead of over there, right over there instead of over here?

00:11:00:03 - 00:11:25:25
Jason Howell
And I think Google's just philosophy or approach is just like Gemini is the effort, you know, 3.5 flash was the big news that they announced their new model. You know better. And they say frontier intelligence with action. So a gentle workflows not just answering questions that sort of stuff that powering everything. And a lot of those capabilities that it's capable of just filtering into everything.

00:11:25:27 - 00:11:34:24
Jason Howell
So everything being able to use everything eventually, that's that's always the goal of Google with its AI right now.

00:11:34:26 - 00:11:42:17
Jeff Jarvis
So my headline is that I think Google is is positioning itself as the retail AI company.

00:11:42:19 - 00:11:43:13
Jason Howell
The retail.

00:11:43:14 - 00:12:04:14
Jeff Jarvis
The the B2B, the B2C, retail B2C. Right. So at the beginning, I was I was interested at the beginning, they started heavy on the tech. They started with their new tensor chip. They started with command line stuff, things that vibe coders would do to compete with where anthropic is and where OpenAI wants to be.

00:12:04:21 - 00:12:13:06
Jason Howell
Yeah, maybe they were making they were giving a soft landing in the beginning to the developer community that the conference is actually geared towards.

00:12:13:07 - 00:12:13:26
Jeff Jarvis
Exactly.

00:12:13:27 - 00:12:18:17
Jason Howell
Even though the keynote often isn't geared towards the developers, they're throwing them a bone at the very top.

00:12:18:18 - 00:12:29:02
Jeff Jarvis
Yep, yep. Exactly. Yeah. But then it turned around, and I think everything that they do is about bringing AI to wherever you are. Yeah, right. Yeah.

00:12:29:05 - 00:12:30:17
Jason Howell
That's my point. Yeah. Exactly.

00:12:30:17 - 00:13:02:19
Jeff Jarvis
That you don't need to use command line. You're going to use their agent stuff to have it do things and basically write code and do what you want to do and not think of it as vibe coding. Yep. You're going to and you're right to that. They put it everywhere so that they're going to transform search. When you go back to the day when when the book Filter Bubbles came out, the contention was that everybody got a personalized, different Google and it separates us all.

00:13:02:19 - 00:13:21:02
Jeff Jarvis
And the research says, no, actually that wasn't the case at all, that we all pretty much got the same goal responses. Well, no more. Now Google is going to be highly personalized to your information. You're going to be able to create ongoing agents to do things for you and get alerted to things and.

00:13:21:08 - 00:13:24:23
Jason Howell
Agents all over the place. Right. Like, that's a that's a big headline for sure.

00:13:24:24 - 00:13:38:29
Jeff Jarvis
And that's five coding with the vibe and not the coding. Right. You don't have to worry about creating an app and I have to run it or any of that. It'll be up in the cloud, as I think you mentioned one of your pieces about you walking around with your laptop open.

00:13:38:29 - 00:13:45:11
Jason Howell
Spark. You're talking about spark, right? At 24 over seven agent running in the cloud, not just on your device.

00:13:45:14 - 00:14:04:20
Jeff Jarvis
So we'll go through all these details. But I don't want to I don't want to steamroll over the details because I think they're fascinating. But yeah, I think I think it just you're right that it's everywhere. And I contend that it's everywhere for everybody. Right. And I haven't wanted to get into vibe. I mean, I haven't had that much use for it.

00:14:04:20 - 00:14:20:14
Jeff Jarvis
I use it for things like my book to put research together and other things. I use it to summarize stuff. I haven't used it yet to make actions, which is what vibe coding does. Really good. Eugenic internet? Yes, I think so.

00:14:20:15 - 00:14:42:06
Jason Howell
That's that's a that's a big yeah. Another big takeaway right, is when you're talking about agents and you're talking about the capabilities of these models, and then we're talking about AI mode and search and kind of the blurring between what was once AI mode now coming into the new search box and, and all these things. And then you bring agents into search.

00:14:42:07 - 00:15:08:20
Jason Howell
I mean, search as a product is changing rapidly. Not not that we didn't know this already, but yesterday made that really clear. Like, and this is this is one of the points that I definitely walked away with is often on this show. We have talked about the the impact, the potential impact of agents on, let's say, a smartphone and the app ecosystem as we know it right now, users are very used to opening their phone.

00:15:08:21 - 00:15:31:12
Jason Howell
They have it, they have a task in mind. They open the app to do the task. They go and they do it. And the app is the conduit through which that happens. And then there is this, you know, future that keeps being presented to us and kind of seems like a direction that things are heading, where the agents are working underneath to make it so that you don't have to go to those apps, that the agents just kind of go to the places and do the things.

00:15:31:12 - 00:15:54:19
Jason Howell
And now we've got agents coming into the search experience. And, you know, for the last however many years people have been concerned about the impact of AI on search. And does it reduce page views and reduce users going actually to the pages where the ads are and everything? Now you've got agents working inside of search, basically doing the same thing that we're talking about with apps on a phone.

00:15:54:23 - 00:16:15:07
Jason Howell
More and more, that search becomes the conduit for the action to be done. If I open a browser because I want to carry out an action, which is to go to this website and do this thing, I maybe no longer have to do that because the agent does that for me. What does that do to the internet? Like what does that do to the internet the way we know it?

00:16:15:07 - 00:16:24:05
Jason Howell
I'm not saying it's good or bad or anything, I'm just saying that's the change that we are facing right now as these features become more prevalent.

00:16:24:07 - 00:16:47:23
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah. And Google has always been a search company. And so that heritage continues strongly. It is it is the lens through which you get to AI. I think most often, not all the time. You're going to use it in your email, you're going to use it in your sheets and whatever else. Yeah, but but search stays centered. And I think that's really important.

00:16:47:25 - 00:17:02:23
Jeff Jarvis
And Google's so in a few ways Google's in the absolute best position here. Right. They have search. They have an ecosystem you're part of. They.

00:17:02:25 - 00:17:10:15
Jeff Jarvis
The nervousness about all the money that OpenAI and anthropic have to pay for hosting will Google is the host. There are any money from those guys to at the same time?

00:17:10:20 - 00:17:11:08
Jason Howell
Yeah, yeah.

00:17:11:14 - 00:17:38:07
Jeff Jarvis
And more of this is going to shift over to their tensor chips from from Nvidia alone there. I think they're extremely well positioned, much better than meta and much better than Apple. Would be really interesting to see what happens, to see where Siri is based on Google and Will. The power that was demonstrated yesterday for Google users come through Gemini into Siri at Apple will be interesting?

00:17:38:07 - 00:17:47:08
Jeff Jarvis
Or will Apple try to tamp it down because it's building its own thing, or they've given up and said, no, we're going to we're going to be equal to that, but it's still Google underneath.

00:17:47:14 - 00:17:53:20
Jason Howell
Or does Google want that on its own phones? You know, the absolute maximum. You know.

00:17:53:27 - 00:18:06:09
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah that's right. Just Google Tampa down. That's right. That's right. Yeah. So the Google stock went down 2% yesterday. It's down three quarters of right now which this is the dumb market. I think.

00:18:06:17 - 00:18:08:12
Jason Howell
That's what do you think drives that.

00:18:08:13 - 00:18:26:08
Jeff Jarvis
Oh knows. Who knows. You know as the old saw goes you matter. You buy on the news, you you buy on what is it you buy on the anticipation of selling the news. Right. And I'm just looking at that right now in video is up 2%, Amazon is up a percent and a half. So why is Google down.

00:18:26:14 - 00:18:35:17
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah I think they're going to be investing a lot. Maybe that's it. But I think I think it was a damn good day for Google.

00:18:35:19 - 00:18:58:08
Jason Howell
I thought so I thought I thought there was a lot of really interesting, compelling news. And like you said, the products that you're already using getting very notable and and meaningful new features, had someone show off kind of image editing. What is it called? Google Pixel pick?

00:18:58:09 - 00:18:58:23
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah.

00:18:58:24 - 00:19:27:18
Jason Howell
Pick inside of inside of the kind of like drive ecosystem. Creating images. You know, creating a slideshow just directly inside of drive, inside of the drive experience and then having certain elements of the picture be not layered, but be detected by the image generation model so that you can be like, all of this is great, but I want this word to actually say this instead of that.

00:19:27:18 - 00:19:43:03
Jason Howell
And now they've gotten it to the point to where you can just kind of click that area and tell it what you want it to say there, and it will keep everything else the same. But change that, like the iterative process is, is a lot more dialed in there. That's a user. Like that's a really solid user choice.

00:19:43:03 - 00:20:04:01
Jason Howell
You don't have to know how to learn the language at this point. I guess that's kind of my point is that these models are integrating in a way to which hopefully for the general consumer, the norms, the normies that aren't, you know, following this stuff deeply on a technical level, still understand how to get the most benefit out of them, right, based on how they're building them.

00:20:04:01 - 00:20:25:05
Jason Howell
And I think they're getting there with these tools. They're not there entirely, but they're certainly getting there. But that does run me up against another kind of question that I have is, you know, also in search, it's not just agents, it's also coding like. Right. And they're they're talking about vibe coding inside of search, which are like, why the hell would I want a vibe code in search?

00:20:25:05 - 00:20:47:29
Jason Howell
But the idea is that, like, if you're looking for an answer or you're looking for a synthesis of information or whatever, instead of having to poke through and, you know, have it collect into a dock or whatever, what if it just presents to you and on the fly created interactive app, essentially, that allows you to then go in and play with it immediately with controls that it just built.

00:20:47:29 - 00:21:10:00
Jason Howell
And I wonder how they're going to present that to the everyday user. Are they going to go the route of code, your own app, or are they going to go the route of, you know, an interactive multimedia? What a throwback term presentation. Multimodal. Yeah, both. But I mean even that might lose the norms normies out there.

00:21:10:01 - 00:21:11:00
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah that's right.

00:21:11:02 - 00:21:30:29
Jason Howell
My my point is like these capabilities are increasing. How do you make that accessible to even the people who might be scared from the word coding. You know what I mean? Like, oh, vibe. I can vibe code in search is going to mean something to somebody, but it's going to scare other people away. But yet there's usefulness there.

00:21:30:29 - 00:21:36:26
Jason Howell
So how do you frame that in a way that makes them curious instead of afraid of it? Yeah.

00:21:36:29 - 00:21:58:29
Jeff Jarvis
But that's where I come back, I think I think it's the B2C AI company. It's the retail AI company. You won't think. You never have to command line. You won't think you're making an app asking to do something, and it's doing it. And it's not just a one time question I was thinking yesterday. I mean, I've changed my search behavior already.

00:21:59:00 - 00:22:20:26
Jeff Jarvis
I used to be put in a keyword. Now, even in the search box they've had for some time, it's more of a prompt. It's a fuller question, or it's a command or it's whatever. Right. So we've already kind of gone that next step, right. But that was still to return some information to me. Now I'm going to be able to return action to me.

00:22:20:29 - 00:22:21:19
Jason Howell
Yeah.

00:22:21:19 - 00:22:30:26
Jeff Jarvis
And, and I and I, I don't have to think about an app coding five coding command line any of that. I think that's powerful.

00:22:30:29 - 00:22:56:01
Jason Howell
Yeah, I think it is. It's real compelling presentation of these tools that were so familiar with. I'm trying to see if maybe some of this, if you're watching the video version in this video, might kind of show you some of the directions of what happens. What is the risk of Google? You know, because Google pointed out this is the first major change to the to Google search box in 25 years.

00:22:56:01 - 00:23:11:23
Jason Howell
They said, yeah, what is the what is the risk there? Because I mean, that's you know, that's a quarter of a century people have been using Google search one very particular way are people. Yeah. Do people want this? Are people ready for this I guess is a big question.

00:23:11:23 - 00:23:15:09
Jeff Jarvis
I well, you know, in a sense for some of it will operate the way it's always operated.

00:23:15:13 - 00:23:19:00
Jason Howell
Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's not like it doesn't operate that way anymore.

00:23:19:02 - 00:23:44:12
Jeff Jarvis
So the hard. Part is to, is to tell you. Hey, you could also do this. People will know what they won't think of it that way. Now, in a sense, open AI and and Claude have taught people new behaviors, but that's only a portion of the population. Yeah. And that's still a chat interface. Chat to chat rather than chat to action.

00:23:44:14 - 00:23:54:15
Jeff Jarvis
To get action on a Claude or OpenAI, you had to vibe code. Yeah. So this is it'll be really interesting to see how they try to train people here.

00:23:54:18 - 00:23:56:14
Jason Howell
Yeah for sure.

00:23:56:17 - 00:24:06:11
Jeff Jarvis
By the way. Yeah. Just just to have. Why. Because it's a it's a standing feature on the show. I'm about to have a raging fit.

00:24:06:13 - 00:24:10:11
Jason Howell
Oh great. Maybe I'll go to the big shot here.

00:24:10:11 - 00:24:28:07
Jeff Jarvis
I don't have three five in my Chromebook work place. I went to a A to my regular old Gmail account. And there. Yep, there it is. Three five right there. Wonderful. It's not in this. I can't see where I'm supposed to do anything. It's driving me bananas.

00:24:28:13 - 00:24:29:25
Jason Howell
Oh.

00:24:29:27 - 00:24:31:07
Jeff Jarvis
So anyway, I just want to do that because.

00:24:31:08 - 00:24:32:19

Go, go.

00:24:32:21 - 00:24:37:23
Jason Howell
Come on. Give Jeff all the things and all the places. Seriously.

00:24:37:24 - 00:24:40:24
Jeff Jarvis
So I think I would go back to our regular programing.

00:24:40:26 - 00:24:41:29
Jason Howell
I got to get that in there.

00:24:42:00 - 00:24:49:08
Jeff Jarvis
So we should probably go through, you know, make sure we've covered everything they did. So so we talked about search. It's about.

00:24:49:11 - 00:25:16:23
Jason Howell
Yeah flash mostly. But I mean Gemini Omni flash was another aspect of this which is kind of image and video generation. Although it was interesting, I went to a kind of a gathering and on the record gathering last night for, for Early access Gemini folk like myself, I have a really access to some of these tools, which of course, I can't talk about until the embargo has lifted.

00:25:16:24 - 00:25:23:23
Jason Howell
That's why I don't share things with you that you've never heard before, because I'm not allowed to. But. But I do belong.

00:25:23:24 - 00:25:32:08
Jeff Jarvis
To folks. Google. He actually doesn't even tell me I'm pissed as hell, but he doesn't even tell me. Here I am, his partner on an AI podcast, and I don't know, I.

00:25:32:09 - 00:25:33:12
Jason Howell
Try to I just.

00:25:33:15 - 00:25:38:17
Jeff Jarvis
So he's he's he's being he's being legit. He's being good. I'm telling you the truth.

00:25:38:19 - 00:26:09:08
Jason Howell
I only had access to Omni for like a day. Yeah, yeah. Forehand. So sure. So there's that. And and I wouldn't say that like actually do I even have it up here. I could, I could show you the, the outcome of, of Omni. Let me see. Here. Give me one second. I'm vamping while I pull this up and I, you know, maybe now everybody has access to Omni, but I put in two images of me and you, and I said, Jason, Jeff, find themselves standing next to a robotic embodiment of.

00:26:09:12 - 00:26:09:21
Jeff Jarvis
People look.

00:26:09:21 - 00:26:31:24
Jason Howell
Like either of those models at Google. I know. Well, I did only use one image of each of us. And really what Google is saying is that omnis like nano banana for video, which I don't know what the difference is between that and veo. Veo not mentioned at all. I kind of think Omni is is doing to veo what Nano Banana did to God.

00:26:31:24 - 00:26:48:18
Jason Howell
What was before it? It was imagine wasn't it? Imagine before nano banana, Imogen or whatever. And then nano Banana came out and it was like, okay, we don't need that other thing anymore. I think that's what's happening here. But if I had fed it more context, maybe it would actually look more like us and you can't hear it.

00:26:48:18 - 00:26:56:06
Jason Howell
But I'm just I don't want to slow down the show. But yeah, it only sort of looks like us. No, not at all.

00:26:56:07 - 00:26:56:14
Jeff Jarvis
It looks.

00:26:56:14 - 00:27:00:26
Jason Howell
Like you're Ryan Seacrest or.

00:27:00:29 - 00:27:30:23
Jason Howell
Anyways. So. Yeah. So this is their video generation. They say improved physics, consistent character rendering, although, you know, remains to be seen. I think, like I said, if I had loaded this with a bunch of examples, it might have gotten a closer, and yeah, synth ID watermarking in all the videos created here. They also have a little bit of a coalition forming around synth ID now that 11 labs, Nvidia, cacao and OpenAI is now part of the synth ID crew.

00:27:30:29 - 00:27:51:02
Jason Howell
So, you know, there's that, we did the search box dude to do. We did search agents, agent coding in search. I'm just kind of like scanning through here to see Gemini Spark. We mentioned spark, but we didn't really dive into.

00:27:51:03 - 00:27:53:07
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, we'll talk about tell people about that.

00:27:53:09 - 00:28:19:15
Jason Howell
This is one that I'm actually pretty excited about, primarily because I've been using, as I've talked about Claude coworker a lot and Claude co work. Is this like a genetic AI platform that is on my device. You know, it's on my laptop, it's tied to my laptop or it's tied to my Mac studio. If I create a cloud coworker on one device, it doesn't necessarily talk between devices.

00:28:19:15 - 00:28:32:23
Jason Howell
So it's very specific, not as portable, but I can assign it, schedule tasks, and have it go out there at any time. Given that the computer is powered on, given that my laptop is open, it will do those things when I set the time.

00:28:32:24 - 00:28:34:18
Jeff Jarvis
Because you're locally?

00:28:34:24 - 00:29:02:13
Jason Howell
Yes. And it's running locally ish. I mean, it's still using cloud in the cloud, but it's driving a lot of that stuff locally. Gemini Spark is Google's 24 over seven AI agent happens in the cloud on their Google Cloud servers, tailored specifically for this use case. So in other words, it's basically AI agents that operate in the cloud 24 over seven without you, you know, being tied to a device.

00:29:02:13 - 00:29:20:25
Jason Howell
So I could open it on multiple devices. I could have it run even though my computer is off. It will not it will never not run. In other words, I think that's pretty pretty interesting. Although there was a part of me that really liked the on device thing because we often talk about like.

00:29:20:27 - 00:29:21:03
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah.

00:29:21:06 - 00:29:24:09
Jason Howell
Pulling away our reliance on the cloud to to go local.

00:29:24:12 - 00:29:33:00
Jeff Jarvis
But that's a very big that's a, that's a, that's a B2B thing. Yeah, that's a geek thing. That's a command line thing kind of thing. That's not a thing.

00:29:33:01 - 00:29:34:11
Jason Howell
This is very Google.

00:29:34:13 - 00:29:40:05
Jeff Jarvis
It's very Google. This is a consumer oriented way to look at AI. Yeah. Once again yeah I think it's important.

00:29:40:05 - 00:29:40:07
Jason Howell
To.

00:29:40:07 - 00:29:45:18
Jeff Jarvis
Your point by the way correction here not correction update I restarted the machine. Now I have it.

00:29:45:20 - 00:29:47:00
Jason Howell
Oh hey there you go.

00:29:47:01 - 00:30:00:01
Jeff Jarvis
All forgiven. Well for now, until the next time. Until the next time. Good. I can't wait to play with it more. I mean, all night I'm thinking, oh, when is it going to come? When is it going to come? I want to play with it for the show. I couldn't play with this. Yeah, now I will. Well. All right.

00:30:00:01 - 00:30:02:25
Jeff Jarvis
So. So, spark, what else do we have. Oh I think.

00:30:02:25 - 00:30:26:11
Jason Howell
The greats with MCP by the way. So you're going to get your contact protocol connections there. That's great. Coming into the Chrome browser directly soon. And then also coming to the phone via Android Halo which was one of the few moments that they mentioned Android on stage. And they really didn't even talk about that other than to say that and eventually coming to the phone via Android Halo.

00:30:26:13 - 00:30:34:23
Jason Howell
So that's coming this summer. So I'm excited about that. I'm definitely interested in playing around with that universal cart, which.

00:30:34:23 - 00:30:40:24
Jeff Jarvis
Is I think this is important. There are three protocols on commerce really add up.

00:30:40:25 - 00:30:44:18
Jason Howell
Okay. Yeah. So tell me, tell me, tell me about your.

00:30:44:18 - 00:30:45:20
Jeff Jarvis
You're pulling up my.

00:30:45:23 - 00:30:53:00
Jason Howell
It's it's important here. It's I mean and I'm not saying that to say I don't think it's important. I'm just curious to know what you think.

00:30:53:02 - 00:31:04:12
Jeff Jarvis
It's kind of an MCP for commerce. So universal car then the agent payment protocol so your agent can pay for you. And then the universal cart.

00:31:04:18 - 00:31:12:02
Jason Howell
Now the agent payment protocol. Is that meant to be. It pulls the trigger. It actually pays. Yeah. Okay. That's why.

00:31:12:05 - 00:31:28:29
Jeff Jarvis
You give it the authority. I'll credit this to to Leo Laporte. As we were on the show, he said he kept coming back to. And this is so different from the early, early, early days of Google. They don't want you to leave. Yeah. So what they demonstrated on stage is you bought something from Best Buy and you never went to Best Buy.

00:31:29:01 - 00:31:29:15
Jason Howell
Yeah.

00:31:29:17 - 00:31:48:12
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, right. Your agent found it for you. Did whatever you wanted in terms of comparisons or whatever else, and had the authority to pay and paid and bought it. And I think that's that's if I were I mean, Amazon sitting there saying, how can we cut this off? But I think, I think consumers will say, well, then I'll screw you Amazon.

00:31:48:14 - 00:31:51:27
Jason Howell
Yeah, that's interesting. If consumers trust it.

00:31:52:00 - 00:31:57:19
Jeff Jarvis
If they trust it. But but you know, I'm old enough to remember when people thought nobody was going to buy anything online.

00:31:57:20 - 00:31:58:17
Jason Howell
Oh yeah, I remember that.

00:31:58:17 - 00:32:05:20
Jeff Jarvis
Nobody was going to buy anything expensive online. Nobody was my clothes online. And totally eventually they all they do.

00:32:05:24 - 00:32:21:23
Jason Howell
Eventually they do. I'm. And I'm not saying that consumers never will. But I am saying that it might take a while because that took a while. I remember, you know, like I witnessed it with my parents. Like it took them a while for them to get to. It took them years before they felt comfortable buying anything online.

00:32:21:24 - 00:32:22:17
Jeff Jarvis
Yep, yep.

00:32:22:18 - 00:32:53:19
Jason Howell
And you know, it's it's kind of like you don't do it until you do. And how you get to the due part, you know, really depends. Everybody's different. And, you know, it always comes back down to trust. Two agents AI and trust have bad reputation among a lot of people. So the idea of giving given an agent full, you know, Karp launch to pull the trigger for you, that's going to take a lot that's going to take a good number of people a considerable amount of time before they feel comfortable with that.

00:32:53:19 - 00:33:04:07
Jason Howell
And that's probably only going to be proven by the fact that many people they know do it all the time and continue to say, oh yeah, there's nothing you have nothing to worry about. I've been doing it for years or whatever. You know, where they're.

00:33:04:12 - 00:33:22:23
Jeff Jarvis
Well, I already have my credit card in Google Wallet, right? Yeah. And I use that to pay now, and I can see having it check with me before it does it. If there's something like every month I want to buy and the first time it'll happen is okay, and the second time it happens, okay. And the third time I say, okay, go ahead and do it on your own.

00:33:22:25 - 00:33:24:07
Jason Howell
Right.

00:33:24:09 - 00:33:31:18
Jeff Jarvis
You know, and Amazon, of course, was there with the little buttons they discontinued. You put this button, the tide button next to your washing machine. Oh and.

00:33:31:18 - 00:33:33:02
Jason Howell
Hit it may rest in peace.

00:33:33:03 - 00:33:38:13
Jeff Jarvis
Yes, exactly. But that was that was an agent for you, in essence. Yeah. Right.

00:33:38:13 - 00:33:49:26
Jason Howell
So yeah. Well, yes, you had to trigger the agent, but you were the, you were the this in the if this then that equation. Right. Right. This then that.

00:33:49:27 - 00:34:06:03
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah I think, I think the other thing that I didn't get enough about yesterday JSON was, was because search becomes personal. I'm not sure how you give it your standing context.

00:34:06:06 - 00:34:08:24
Jason Howell
Okay. Explain I'm trying to follow.

00:34:08:26 - 00:34:24:09
Jeff Jarvis
I'm a I'm a teacher. And whenever I ask you about how to explain things, you should give it to me in the context as if I'm going to teach a class on it. I'm making this up. Right. Okay. And that's the kind of thing that you give us an instruction into Claude or OpenAI, right?

00:34:24:09 - 00:34:25:21
Jason Howell
You can put that into the system and.

00:34:25:24 - 00:34:35:29
Jeff Jarvis
Put that here. But, but but because it's personal search, how much can you have impact on what it remembers about you and how it acts on that?

00:34:36:01 - 00:34:38:02
Jason Howell
It's a good question. I mean, I do know that.

00:34:38:05 - 00:34:39:14
Jeff Jarvis
An answer to that yesterday.

00:34:39:17 - 00:34:59:20
Jason Howell
Yeah, that's a good question. I because we have known for a while because Google ruled this out, I don't know how many months ago the personal intelligence kind of layer into Gemini, which is essentially if you opt into it and you tell it like, yes, you can, you can have access to my Gmail and my drive and blah, blah, blah.

00:34:59:23 - 00:35:26:12
Jason Howell
And, you know, all those sources help inform you as far as who I am, what's important to me and become data points, you know, my photos, all that kind of stuff. And I do know that parts of that personal intelligence do loop into the search experience. You know, in this kind of new, new search experience, how that transforms that experience to what you're talking about, that I don't know.

00:35:26:13 - 00:35:32:22
Jason Howell
Yeah. Does it actually change how things are presented to you at a foundation.

00:35:32:22 - 00:35:32:26
Jeff Jarvis
And.

00:35:32:26 - 00:35:33:29
Jason Howell
You influence the question.

00:35:34:00 - 00:35:37:07
Jeff Jarvis
You know, do you have the chance to influence it and tell it from now on? Do this.

00:35:37:10 - 00:35:48:00
Jason Howell
Yeah, that's a good question. Right. You're in the search box and you're like, you know what? Going forward when I do this search, never show this particular outlet or never show this website or right.

00:35:48:00 - 00:35:50:01
Jeff Jarvis
Never tell me I'm smart for asking this.

00:35:50:03 - 00:35:55:13
Jason Howell
Yeah, that would be kind of interesting though. Could you like maybe that's already possible, but.

00:35:55:14 - 00:36:15:03
Jeff Jarvis
That's what I don't know. I mean, it's I've long in the world of personalization and fears about it with privacy. I've long argued that companies should give you the opportunity, should tell you what they know about you, how they use it, and give you the opportunity to change it. They would only learn more about you. They would only learn more.

00:36:15:11 - 00:36:17:26
Jeff Jarvis
Stop telling me about this. I bought that for my daughter. Stop, stop.

00:36:17:27 - 00:36:33:09
Jason Howell
This is how we use AI. This is how we use Llms. Now. This is how I build agents. Now is I tell it what I need. It spits out something at me and I go, oh, that's close, but this is what I want you to do differently. And all of that preference.

00:36:33:11 - 00:36:33:26
Jeff Jarvis
Can you make.

00:36:33:26 - 00:36:34:11
Jason Howell
All that?

00:36:34:15 - 00:36:52:15
Jeff Jarvis
Can you have a can you have an input on that? Can you make it persistent? Can you perhaps have more than one persona? Okay, this is work Jeff talking to you. This is fun Jeff talking to you. Right, right, right. That's where there's a big opportunity for Google, I think, to model. They talk about personal search. It's no it is a filter bubble now okay.

00:36:52:15 - 00:36:55:26
Jeff Jarvis
Let me let me go full bore with that and see what that looks like.

00:36:55:29 - 00:36:58:25
Jason Howell
That's really interesting idea. And consider that yeah.

00:36:58:26 - 00:37:18:17
Jeff Jarvis
Two other things. One is they announced the Google for science research, which they didn't spend a lot of time on. But I think that's, that's that's a salute to how this is being used. I think it's important. And finally, I found it interesting that Davis came out twice and closed the event.

00:37:18:19 - 00:37:43:06
Jason Howell
I thought the clothes was was kind of everybody in the audience. Everybody was like, oh, it's done. Yeah. So like, it was really it didn't. Well, it wasn't that it was early. It was. However, he chose to close. It didn't feel like a closer no to anyone there. I don't know how it came across a live stream, but suddenly he was walking off the stage and it was like, oh, wait a minute, that's how he closed it.

00:37:43:11 - 00:37:49:25
Jason Howell
Yeah, okay. All right, all right. Guess we're done, I guess. Okay, let's file out now. It was, it was. I can't remember exactly how.

00:37:49:25 - 00:38:04:12
Jeff Jarvis
I kind of missed a few lines. And he came up with Neil Patel, put up a video quoting him saying, you know, the most the craziest thing I heard an opening, I and it was three quotes from Abbas saying that we're nearly at AGI and we're at the singularity.

00:38:04:14 - 00:38:04:23
Jason Howell
Yeah.

00:38:04:24 - 00:38:05:15
Jeff Jarvis
I kind of missed.

00:38:05:15 - 00:38:05:21
Jason Howell
Him.

00:38:05:21 - 00:38:17:25
Jeff Jarvis
Saying that, which like, yeah, but yesterday I speculated when watching it that are they setting up to be Sundar successor?

00:38:17:27 - 00:38:19:08
Jason Howell
Oh.

00:38:19:11 - 00:38:21:03
Jeff Jarvis
Just speculation, but that.

00:38:21:03 - 00:38:21:12
Jason Howell
Was a.

00:38:21:12 - 00:38:22:24
Jeff Jarvis
Pretty prominent position.

00:38:22:27 - 00:38:23:21
Jason Howell
Compelling.

00:38:23:29 - 00:38:28:03
Jeff Jarvis
I don't even do you know whether it was was there last year or the year before?

00:38:28:06 - 00:38:28:18
Jason Howell
Yeah.

00:38:28:19 - 00:38:40:18
Jeff Jarvis
He he's okay. All right, all right. I didn't know that, but I thought it was a very prominent position to be the closer in essence. Yeah. If it's an AI company and he's your AI guy. Yeah.

00:38:40:20 - 00:38:47:14
Jason Howell
Yeah. Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? That's a really interesting idea. I wouldn't be surprised about that at all.

00:38:47:17 - 00:39:01:09
Jeff Jarvis
I mean, I'm not saying Sundar, you know, can be president of alphabet. And they could they could split them up again. In essence, it's just speculation. Just wondering. But I think I think the demos is clearly a star there. And they were they must be very happy they bought DeepMind back in the day.

00:39:01:15 - 00:39:02:14
Jason Howell
Oh heck yeah.

00:39:02:17 - 00:39:10:19
Jeff Jarvis
Buying DeepMind, buying YouTube. And these were incredible. Buying double click. These were changing transactions for the company.

00:39:10:21 - 00:39:11:13
Jason Howell
Yes.

00:39:11:18 - 00:39:15:02
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah. So I thought it was I thought it was a good day.

00:39:15:05 - 00:39:43:06
Jason Howell
Yep. Lots of stuff. Before we end things, I do want to show you something that I think you'll appreciate. Jeff, when I was in the AI sandbox, the center of the AI sandbox was geni, which is Google's world model demonstration. And so you could pick your character, or you could choose to create your own, and then you pick kind of a scenario environment, I guess, or choose to do your own.

00:39:43:06 - 00:40:07:21
Jason Howell
I think I picked what did I pick? That's that's Ron Richards. I chose the like a spinning top and create my own environment, which ended up being a podcast studio. And basically for those who don't remember, and it's just loading. If you're watching the video version, it'll get there. This is the setup, the system that generates an interactive world in real time.

00:40:07:21 - 00:40:26:27
Jason Howell
And so you have a couple of joysticks and like a jump button. And you could kind of consider this as like it creates a 62nd game for you on the fly based on the inputs that you give it in a generative sense. And so I basically said, take this thimble and put it into a podcast studio. So it's loading.

00:40:26:29 - 00:40:32:13
Jason Howell
I'm trying to get to the actual demo.

00:40:32:15 - 00:40:41:01
Jason Howell
Come on. Apparently it comes very late in the video and just vamping you.

00:40:41:06 - 00:40:43:15
Jeff Jarvis
What did I just say? Nice things about YouTube. Come on.

00:40:43:17 - 00:41:06:23
Jason Howell
Yeah. Come on, come on. But anyways, it creates it all in real time, I would say my my playing around with it, you know, you can see it's a little a little choppy but it is creating this, you know, live as I'm moving around all. It's not like it. This is a preprogramed world. It just kind of took the the spinning top and created this podcast studio environment.

00:41:06:23 - 00:41:07:07
Jason Howell
And now I'm.

00:41:07:11 - 00:41:14:21
Jeff Jarvis
The spinning top around is is not operating like a spinning top does. It's pretty tough to hold to a surface and it doesn't.

00:41:14:29 - 00:41:15:11
Jason Howell
Yeah.

00:41:15:11 - 00:41:17:23
Jeff Jarvis
It's sort of ignoring the gravity.

00:41:17:25 - 00:41:24:08
Jason Howell
It is. But it's it's capturing a lot of the like reflections of the room, everything, which was kind of kind of.

00:41:24:09 - 00:41:47:03
Jeff Jarvis
So this is the difference I think yesterday. This is this is my Yann LeCun and you just bumped off something off the table. And in all the way gravity would have it fall. It flew. Yeah. So what strikes me here is that what Google was showing off yesterday? There's Jason's hand. Is that they're showing impressive made up worlds.

00:41:47:06 - 00:41:47:17
Jason Howell
Yeah.

00:41:47:18 - 00:42:12:03
Jeff Jarvis
But the key to a world model is to deal with the real world. The real world under the rules of the real world, and that a spinning top has to be on a surface to spin. And when a ball falls off a table, it falls in a certain pattern because of gravity, right? Yeah. And so I think it was this is speculative or fictional or I don't know what to say, rendering of imaginary worlds.

00:42:12:03 - 00:42:13:20
Jeff Jarvis
I wouldn't call it real.

00:42:13:23 - 00:42:14:07
Jason Howell
No.

00:42:14:07 - 00:42:32:23
Jeff Jarvis
It's a world model but a not a real world model. And so I think it'll be interesting to see what LeCun does and Fei-Fei Li in the future, because that what you just showed is fun. But that wouldn't help you if you're a self-driving car because it thinks the car can fly, right?

00:42:32:25 - 00:42:40:19
Jason Howell
Yeah. What are the what are the confines in which it actually operates? Yeah. Hey, everything starts somewhere. I suppose.

00:42:40:20 - 00:42:47:17
Jeff Jarvis
It's a constraint. How does it work in a constrained world? Yeah. Is the key to world models and has said that.

00:42:47:19 - 00:43:04:02
Jason Howell
Yeah. But I was excited to see that. I was like of all the things I was like okay I got to check that out because there's no other way to test this. And so there was a little bit of a long line waiting for that. All in all though, it was a great Google I o it's still going on today.

00:43:04:02 - 00:43:06:23
Jason Howell
I just usually don't go day too because I get everything I need.

00:43:06:25 - 00:43:09:09
Jeff Jarvis
Cause you missed me. I know you missed me. You want to be here?

00:43:09:09 - 00:43:15:12
Jason Howell
Yeah that's right. I miss you Jeff. And I don't want to miss the podcast as well. So that is.

00:43:15:12 - 00:43:16:27
Jeff Jarvis
Google folks.

00:43:17:00 - 00:43:36:17
Jason Howell
And all of you. Which speaking of all of you, Patreon.com sideshow, you know, we got things happening at the Patreon even for free subscribers. So you should go and join for free and you'll get some extra bonus stuff. And I do want to throw out some thank yous, because we have had an influx of new patrons.

00:43:36:21 - 00:43:38:12
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, yeah yeah.

00:43:38:14 - 00:43:41:20
Jason Howell
Captain caveman, counterpoint, Richard Reichert, Lisa.

00:43:41:21 - 00:43:42:01
Jeff Jarvis
Edwards.

00:43:42:01 - 00:43:44:08
Jason Howell
Michael Ryan what's that?

00:43:44:09 - 00:43:46:13
Jeff Jarvis
Michael. Reichert. Michael. So, Richard.

00:43:46:13 - 00:43:48:12
Jason Howell
What did I say? Richard. Did I say Michelle?

00:43:48:13 - 00:43:50:13
Jeff Jarvis
No, you said Richard. It's okay.

00:43:50:15 - 00:43:52:01
Jason Howell
Oh. Oh, okay.

00:43:52:02 - 00:43:54:12
Jeff Jarvis
Because Riker looks like Richard. That's okay.

00:43:54:14 - 00:43:55:18
Jason Howell
Got it. Okay.

00:43:55:19 - 00:43:58:20
Jeff Jarvis
Michael Riker, Lisa Edwards, Lisa Edwards, Ryan.

00:43:58:20 - 00:44:19:26
Jason Howell
Lyons, Miles Berry there you go. Patreon.com insight show. Great to have you all on board. Hopefully we can convince more of you to get on board. Just saying that daily podcast. It exists. Jeff's going to answer his his old school phone. Is that an actual ring or is that a digital representation of an actual ring? Okay. All right.

00:44:19:26 - 00:44:20:11
Jason Howell
Right.

00:44:20:14 - 00:44:24:15
Jeff Jarvis
Yes. There was a page, which it's comforting for us old folks.

00:44:24:18 - 00:44:36:26
Jason Howell
I do remember when phones sounded like that. We're going to take a break and come back and talk about some other news that maybe has something to do with Google, but mostly not. That's coming up here in a moment.

00:44:36:29 - 00:45:07:08
Jason Howell
All right. Let's see here. We've got an Andre Karpathy joining anthropic. This is the OpenAI co-founder Andre Karpathy. Yeah becoming an anthropic employee. One of the more respective AI AI researchers working in today. Like I said founding member of OpenAI, former director of AI at Tesla. He coined the term vibe coding. So whether you love it or.

00:45:07:08 - 00:45:08:25
Jeff Jarvis
Hate it. He's a visionary.

00:45:08:27 - 00:45:09:23
Jeff Jarvis
Yes.

00:45:09:25 - 00:45:10:12
Jason Howell
Yeah.

00:45:10:14 - 00:45:26:29
Jeff Jarvis
So he's going to work on helping Claude. It's using Claude itself to accelerate pre-training research. And this is, according to Axios, an increasingly important frontier as AI companies race to automate parts of AI development. So this is the step toward AI making AI.

00:45:27:01 - 00:45:49:15
Jason Howell
Yeah, having the having the model help improve itself, help build itself. They're all doing this to some degree. And even Google yesterday mentioned something about I can't remember what it was tied to about how anti-gravity was used to create one of their other things. I wish I had written it down, I can't remember off the top of my head, but yeah, they're all doing this.

00:45:49:15 - 00:46:14:23
Jason Howell
They're all using their I to their AI to somehow iterate somehow, you know, check the logs or, you know, they're integrated in multiple different ways. And so that sounds like what Andre is going to be doing. He says on X, quote, I think the next few years at the frontier of Llms will be especially formative. I'm very excited to join the team here and get back to R&D.

00:46:14:25 - 00:46:47:07
Jason Howell
And yeah, it's pretty significant higher. I mean, he's a he's a notable name and anthropic is a notable company right now. They have the pull to bring him in and put him to work. So could yeah, I'll be curious to see what that leads to for anthropic. Speaking of anthropic acquired stainless. Stainless is a New York startup founded in 2022 by a former stripe engineer, Alex Rattray Rattray.

00:46:47:09 - 00:47:14:14
Jason Howell
It's being used by OpenAI, Google, Cloudflare, runway replicate, which a number of those you know clearly that's anthropic competitors and now anthropic owns this company acquired it for a reported $300 million. I don't think that they announced an official amount on this. They are winding down their hosted products so competitors can keep the SDKs that they already generated.

00:47:14:14 - 00:47:41:13
Jason Howell
They lose access going forward. Anthropic says stainless has powered every official anthropic SDK since the early, earliest days of their API. So basically they're pulling this key piece of infrastructure out of common access and kind of locking it down into their own walls. And that means that anthropic direct competitors are going to have to build or find alternatives as a result.

00:47:41:13 - 00:47:43:25
Jason Howell
So if, if.

00:47:43:27 - 00:47:45:17
Jeff Jarvis
Right.

00:47:45:19 - 00:48:07:07
Jason Howell
That's a that's a power move right there. But I guess if they're using it and relying on it so much I guess it makes sense. They've they've got an insane war chest right now. So yeah I don't know what that means for all the all the companies that have relied on this, on this product suddenly having to, to work around it.

00:48:07:09 - 00:48:09:13
Jason Howell
But that's what they'll have to do.

00:48:09:15 - 00:48:25:24
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah. It's interesting, these two stories do go together because by people and buying apps by companies. Yeah, they're using this VC money as a territory grab, which is okay, I get that. But Google is buying less and right now doing more. So we'll see.

00:48:25:26 - 00:48:57:02
Jason Howell
Yeah. Let's see here. Do do gonna vamp for just a quick second because I want to God I'm trying to figure out how I'm realizing my podcast art is on a different machine than the one that I have here. Okay. Well, what I wanted to show off real quick is because we were talking about anthropic clod design, which we mentioned a number of weeks ago when clod first started rolling it out, and I had never used it, and I had the credits and everything.

00:48:57:02 - 00:49:10:05
Jason Howell
So I was like, I want to redesign the AI inside podcast art, which, okay, this is this is a horrible way to show it off, but there it is. It's just really small and I can't make it larger, so. Well, maybe, maybe.

00:49:10:07 - 00:49:11:24
Jeff Jarvis
We're going to put out a postage stamp.

00:49:11:24 - 00:49:27:23
Jason Howell
So hey, there we go. I'll just zoom in on it. It's not the best way to show off the new podcast art, but this is where we got. But at the beginning I was like, you know, the podcast started. It's like there's no personality, it's just the logo. It's really dark. It's got this like dated AI circuitry board behind it.

00:49:27:24 - 00:49:45:09
Jason Howell
Like there's a number of things that I don't like about it, and I just want to I'm curious to know what cloud design would, would inform me, you know, to do. And so I launched cloud Design and started going back and forth with it. I just basically said, like, I want to redesign this podcast. Art here was an idea.

00:49:45:11 - 00:50:06:02
Jason Howell
You know, this was like an initial idea that I was playing around with when I first started kind of thinking about what I do. It's like, okay, I'll build you a proper design review. Let's see if I can get to there's got to be. Oh yeah. So the first so this is what I kind of fed it. The first draft it said cluttered circuit board cliche.

00:50:06:03 - 00:50:26:29
Jason Howell
Then it came back with something that informed me into this direction. And then ultimately, you know, I landed here. And then eventually I took it to Patreon and I ended up putting a circle around the logo. Sorry. For audio listeners, this is very visual, but what I want to show, and this is not showing me the information. Let's see here.

00:50:27:00 - 00:50:48:14
Jason Howell
Was this it? Okay, so this was my first review. No, that's not it. That's not it. Where is it? I'm sorry. I probably should have planned this a little better than what I did. Okay, so when I fed it this information, it gives me the image and it points out all the different things that it's analyzing. And that's what these numbers represent.

00:50:48:14 - 00:50:56:08
Jason Howell
There's different dotted numbers on the image that I gave it to say these are things to look for. The green ones are kind of like, I like this. The logo.

00:50:56:09 - 00:50:56:14
Jeff Jarvis
Is.

00:50:56:21 - 00:51:00:22
Jeff Jarvis
The guy with the beard is too old. Why are you hanging out with them?

00:51:00:25 - 00:51:23:08
Jason Howell
It said nothing about that, Jeff. Don't worry. You're good, you're good. It liked the logo. It hated everything else. Basically, it was like the faces are killing the logo. The two most important elements collide. You know, we're. We're cut off on the side. Circuit board background is dated and cliche. The cyan rim light reads like a Photoshop cut out the kind of tracing around us.

00:51:23:08 - 00:51:41:23
Jason Howell
And so it gave me some real actionable information where I was like, oh, okay, this is I could work with this, right? And then it starts to get real weird because then it's like, here, let me let me show you some examples of what you could do. And it starts pulling back examples that are just.

00:51:41:26 - 00:51:43:14
Jeff Jarvis
Jesus.

00:51:43:17 - 00:52:07:00
Jason Howell
They're just chopped like this ones, I guess a cohesive idea, although it doesn't even integrate the logo that it said it liked this. I'm not sure what I'm looking at. It's like a cut through, see through. AI with us poking through, but it doesn't have any sort of sorting and direction. Let's just say the ideas it came back with, probably because I gave it a flat image, you know what I mean?

00:52:07:00 - 00:52:13:17
Jason Howell
Like, what could it what could it do immediately with a flat image. And it just it came back with some hilarious results.

00:52:13:18 - 00:52:14:09
Jeff Jarvis
What's interesting is.

00:52:14:09 - 00:52:18:11
Jeff Jarvis
That it recognized the discrete elements of what you gave it with the numbers.

00:52:18:11 - 00:52:19:09
Jeff Jarvis
But then then.

00:52:19:11 - 00:52:20:18
Jeff Jarvis
It just went haywire.

00:52:20:25 - 00:52:36:08
Jason Howell
Right? Right. Totally. And it went off. Yes, exactly. So this was the first one I took the suggestions from what it gave me, and I kind of came back with something like this. I was like, what do you think of this? I actually thought this was an interesting approach, and I kind of liked it. And it was like, okay, well, here's all the things I like.

00:52:36:08 - 00:52:58:00
Jason Howell
Here's the things I don't like. You know, your word Mark got too small. That's the hero that should be larger. And in this case, you know, the the images of you and I were just too big, apparently, according to Claude. And so it kind of walked me through again all the things that I did. Horrible. And then again, gave me all of these, like, really choppy, blocky kind of examples of what I could do instead.

00:52:58:00 - 00:53:16:15
Jason Howell
But ultimately, I mean, I got to say, you know, I ended up getting there. I was pretty happy with the way I turned turned it into a kind of like a final art that is a little different than what you're seeing here. I just thought it was an interesting experiment. Like, what could Claude do, actually do in the in the realm of design?

00:53:16:15 - 00:53:36:11
Jason Howell
And I think it stumbled in some ways, but it also had really good insight to share. And so I just focused more on the insight than I did on any of the layers and, and designs that it gave me, because those were absolutely useless. But I liked the, the advice and I got to a place I liked. So there you go.

00:53:36:13 - 00:53:40:27
Jason Howell
That's Claude Design. You're going to use it for your next design project.

00:53:40:27 - 00:53:42:13
Jeff Jarvis
Jeff, I don't design anything you don't want.

00:53:42:13 - 00:53:43:27
Jeff Jarvis
Me to do.

00:53:44:00 - 00:53:45:27
Jason Howell
Yeah, like that's not my cup of tea.

00:53:45:29 - 00:53:52:29
Jeff Jarvis
Look around. I mean, when I look at so. So, by the way, I have the first copies of my book, right?

00:53:53:00 - 00:53:54:14
Jeff Jarvis
Hey, I have the. True.

00:53:54:15 - 00:53:58:21
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, I have the privilege. I love this cover. Right, Ben?

00:53:58:24 - 00:53:59:09
Jeff Jarvis
I do too.

00:53:59:11 - 00:54:18:20
Jeff Jarvis
Is the is the designer. He's the actual designer to watch the iterations of the process of what he went going through and getting the machine here and figuring out how to do all that and this and this sense of how to use the space and how to use this gap in the subtitle. For those of you who are watching, for those of you who want to look like look like, go to Jeff Drivers and you can see the cover.

00:54:18:23 - 00:54:37:02
Jeff Jarvis
I have tremendous respect for designers. When I started the magazine Entertainment Weekly, the design was universally, almost universally hated because I, as the editor, didn't know how to manage designers, and they went too far and we had to redesign within 15 weeks. So no, keep me away from design. I'm not good.

00:54:37:02 - 00:54:37:20
Jeff Jarvis
At it.

00:54:37:24 - 00:55:00:02
Jason Howell
I always think I can do more with design than I'm able to do, like I have. I have a I can get halfway there. Again, with everything in technology, I know just enough to be dangerous. And it's definitely the case with with design. So but I appreciated the kind of like collaborative iterative process with with the cloud design experience.

00:55:00:03 - 00:55:25:11
Jason Howell
Like I thought it was informative from that perspective. I just none of like literally zero of the examples that it created as an idea I should try were useful. So as you all saw, if you saw the video version. So there we go. Anyways, that's my experience with the cloud design. We let's see here have next up the Amazon Alexa Plus podcast feature.

00:55:25:11 - 00:55:39:07
Jason Howell
So basically with your Alexa device, which I just probably fired off one of your devices out there. Apologies, Alex. Say podcast is the name of the future rolling out to you as customers?

00:55:39:09 - 00:55:39:15
Jeff Jarvis
No.

00:55:39:18 - 00:55:40:06
Jason Howell
Today.

00:55:40:07 - 00:55:41:12
Jeff Jarvis
No no no.

00:55:41:13 - 00:55:42:08
Jason Howell
Not a fan.

00:55:42:09 - 00:55:43:11
Jeff Jarvis
I mean.

00:55:43:13 - 00:56:00:29
Jeff Jarvis
Notebook podcasts were a parlor trick. They were cute. I can see some utility if I were a student and I said, I'll review this for me and just let me let me listen to it while I'm driving. Okay, I get that. But no, I think this is going to be slop of slop. We have video.

00:56:00:29 - 00:56:01:26
Jeff Jarvis
Slop, we have.

00:56:01:26 - 00:56:05:12
Jeff Jarvis
Visionary, you know, we have we have visual slop. And now and now we have audio slop.

00:56:05:13 - 00:56:06:18
Jason Howell
Oh.,

00:56:06:20 - 00:56:07:23
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah.

00:56:07:25 - 00:56:41:12
Jason Howell
Kind of low effort. Yeah, yeah. I'll be curious to hear it to to be able to kind of cast my final verdict on it. But I mean it basically, you ask your device to create a podcast about a specific topic. It researches it, it gives you a summary of what the episode is going to cover. You can get in there and tweak the length, the tone, what it focuses on, and then it generates that podcast in air quotes with AI generated voices.

00:56:41:12 - 00:57:11:27
Jason Howell
And there are partnerships here as well. Amazon made partnerships with Associated Press, Reuters, Washington Post, time, Forbes, Business Insider, Politico, USA today and more than 200 local newspapers. Very interested to see if this is any good and whether people actually want this. I think there are some people that are that want this, but I don't know how many of those some people there are and how good the quality will be is the real determining factor.

00:57:11:29 - 00:57:21:25
Jason Howell
If if it sounds, if you're if I feel like I'm listening to Siri read Me podcast, I'm not going to be interested. Like.

00:57:21:26 - 00:57:22:08
Jeff Jarvis
I know.

00:57:22:09 - 00:57:24:17
Jason Howell
You know, it has to be convincing.

00:57:24:18 - 00:57:25:06
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah. Absolutely.

00:57:25:06 - 00:57:25:25
Jeff Jarvis
Torture.

00:57:26:01 - 00:57:50:11
Jason Howell
Yeah, it would be torturous. Don't really care much about this story, but I put it in here anyways because it's done. Elon Musk lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI case was dismissed. His team, by the way, framing it with in public statements as a win, saying that the lawsuit itself surfaced damaging information about OpenAI's nonprofit to profit conversions.

00:57:50:11 - 00:57:51:08
Jason Howell
So, yeah.

00:57:51:08 - 00:57:53:13
Jeff Jarvis
He's not 100% wrong.

00:57:53:14 - 00:57:53:24
Jason Howell
Yeah.

00:57:53:24 - 00:57:54:15
Jeff Jarvis
That's true.

00:57:54:17 - 00:58:16:07
Jeff Jarvis
Because I think there was some reputational damage to Altman particularly and OpenAI. Embarrassing. But they'll get past it. They're going to get past it as soon as they start cashing the IPO checks. Yep. Interesting to me was that the jury didn't even bother with poor jury sat there through all this stuff, and they didn't even bother to get to any of the substance of it.

00:58:16:07 - 00:58:18:07
Jeff Jarvis
They just said, you're too late.

00:58:18:09 - 00:58:18:21
Jason Howell
Yeah.

00:58:18:23 - 00:58:24:01
Jeff Jarvis
Technical limitations. That's it. By we wasted enough time on this. And so.

00:58:24:01 - 00:58:25:14
Jeff Jarvis
There was no long either.

00:58:25:15 - 00:58:26:20
Jeff Jarvis
No two hours, 90.

00:58:26:20 - 00:58:27:23
Jeff Jarvis
Minutes, two hours.

00:58:27:25 - 00:58:49:09
Jeff Jarvis
So I think it was maybe filling out the forms. So there was no, nothing was nothing was determined. No court of law said anything about the actual dispute, but not too late. Screw it. Which, by the way, surprises me that the judge didn't say there's a statute of limitations here and you're over it. I think that would have been something to do preemptively.

00:58:49:14 - 00:58:49:29
Jeff Jarvis
But in.

00:58:49:29 - 00:58:50:17
Jeff Jarvis
Any case, something.

00:58:50:17 - 00:58:56:08
Jason Howell
You catch early, someone catches early. I'm, you know, kind of surprised that Altman's team didn't catch that early, like.

00:58:56:09 - 00:58:56:24
Jeff Jarvis
Well, I'm sure.

00:58:56:24 - 00:59:12:02
Jeff Jarvis
There was a preemptive I'm sure there was an effort to get them to throw it out on that basis. But for whatever reason, the judge didn't. And so the jury ruled on that. It would strike me as an odd thing for the jury to rule on, but fine, that's what it is. The case is over. They all should be embarrassed.

00:59:12:05 - 00:59:28:05
Jeff Jarvis
This is why people don't like AI. The the. This is why commencement speakers are getting booed as we'll discuss in a second. Yeah, I think this case kind of represents why AI has a bad rep. It's not the technology, it's these kind of people.

00:59:28:07 - 00:59:28:26
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah.

00:59:28:29 - 00:59:57:20
Jason Howell
Yeah, all of it together. Yeah. Well, I mean, we can talk about that, right? Wall Street Journal has a piece. There's two basically two articles, but they kind of are framed around this Eric Schmidt experience at University of Arizona, where it was the commencement event going on, and students just weren't having it. When Eric Schmidt was speaking about AI during his speech, they booed very loudly.

00:59:57:25 - 01:00:28:24
Jason Howell
They should have been. He's been an aggressive, you would say, advocate for AI. You know, both investment and also kind of competitiveness for the US in AI and everything. And yeah, the Washington sorry, the Wall Street Journal writing that this is, you know, one of many symbols of a growing backlash to AI people pushing back, organizing around, you know, kind of this fatigue around AI.

01:00:28:24 - 01:00:40:07
Jason Howell
And, I mean, I, I don't I don't dispute like I've certainly talked to people that I can tell. Like that is a sentiment that is shared by a lot of people. It exists.

01:00:40:08 - 01:00:42:14
Jeff Jarvis
Yep.

01:00:42:17 - 01:01:00:06
Jason Howell
And definitely, you know, and and as we've talked to be a graduate right now and to be kind of in this moment of uncertainty around what AI and what this new technology means for all of the work that you've done to get you to where you are. It's got to be a weird got to be a weird place to be, to be a student right now.

01:01:00:06 - 01:01:07:18
Jason Howell
So Eric Schmidt got to be on the receiving end of that uncertainty there.

01:01:07:20 - 01:01:08:05
Jeff Jarvis
All right.

01:01:08:06 - 01:01:09:26
Jason Howell
We are going to take a.

01:01:09:26 - 01:01:12:27
Jeff Jarvis
Quick break quick before we do.

01:01:12:29 - 01:01:31:06
Jason Howell
We do have a YouTube channel. If you are not aware go to youtube.com a sorry go to YouTube, search for AI inside or AI inside show. You will find it. You can subscribe. You'll get all the video version. You'll be able to see that cloud design thing that I was talking about. Hopefully I didn't bore audio listeners to death.

01:01:31:08 - 01:01:32:24
Jeff Jarvis
With that, but no.

01:01:32:26 - 01:01:46:29
Jason Howell
I think it's worth I think it's worth looking at. So go there and take a look. Because if you if you're curious what it can do, boy, that's one way to look at it. We're gonna come back and do a little speed round. So that's coming up in a moment. Stay tuned.

01:01:47:02 - 01:02:18:09
Jason Howell
All right. Speed round time. Next era energy is acquiring Dominion Energy in a deal that brings some pretty important players together for powering AI, data centers and everything else. CNBC has at least this article anyways, is covering this as a major power infrastructure story that does relate to AI, right? Data centers consuming all this electricity. And so this is really kind of uniting two behemoths together.

01:02:18:11 - 01:02:27:18
Jason Howell
This was a big deal. I mean, people seem to be I don't know what did you think of this? This was just Monday, right? Yeah. I think this was on Monday.

01:02:27:21 - 01:02:36:18
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah. Again, it's a lot of of acquisitions going on all around in this field.

01:02:36:21 - 01:02:43:26
Jeff Jarvis
I don't think we know yet whether the data centers are going to be needed to the extent that we think.

01:02:43:28 - 01:02:45:11
Jason Howell
Yeah that's good.

01:02:45:14 - 01:03:10:14
Jeff Jarvis
And I'm fearing that we're gonna have an overbuilt as we have with the internet, you know the crash. And so the CapEx they said it Google yesterday was up I think either 6 or 7 times over a few years. These are multiples of CapEx. This is why the stock market is not wildly happy because of the spending. It's keeping the the economy afloat while everything else is getting messed up with tariffs and war and such.

01:03:10:16 - 01:03:35:28
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah. So it's playing a role right now. But it's a huge, huge investment. And meanwhile what we saw, what we hear all the time from Justin Wong, what we saw yesterday from Google, what we hear from Yann LeCun, everybody. The main goal is to find more efficiency in the hardware and software, so that you're constantly trying to do the same with a lot less or do more with less.

01:03:36:00 - 01:04:01:00
Jeff Jarvis
And so do we need all of these data centers at the size of which they're being built? The presumption right now is, yes, we can't get enough of it. We keep build, build, build, build, build. Ben Benedict Evans had his annual Mondo spreadsheet. That's a slideshow come out, and one of the slides is so telling is the data center building is now surpassed.

01:04:01:02 - 01:04:02:14
Jeff Jarvis
Office building.

01:04:02:16 - 01:04:04:04
Jason Howell
Oh. Oh, interesting.

01:04:04:05 - 01:04:27:27
Jeff Jarvis
Isn't that so? Building for machines is bigger than building for butts. And so yeah, the economy is responding to this demand, but I'm not sure that it's going to be a sustained demand. And meanwhile, of course, 70% of Americans don't want them anywhere near them. States are trying to pass laws because they have cooties. If you can't get rid of Eric Schmidt talking about AI, you can get rid of the data center.

01:04:27:28 - 01:04:30:29
Jeff Jarvis
So.

01:04:31:02 - 01:04:36:12
Jeff Jarvis
I don't know. I don't know what to think about about this kind of consolidation in data center building.

01:04:36:18 - 01:05:08:00
Jason Howell
Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah, there's a big movement happening. Pope Leo the 14th will publish his first encyclical called Magnifica Humanitas on May 25th. Anthropic co-founder Christopher Ola will join the launch panel at the Vatican. The. The encyclical is expected to address AI and humanity directly. And yeah, having an anthropic founder sitting on that panel is amazing.

01:05:08:03 - 01:05:10:21
Jeff Jarvis
What? I hadn't really heard of much.

01:05:10:23 - 01:05:12:02
Jason Howell
Yeah, true.

01:05:12:04 - 01:05:21:29
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah. He's the Pope. Leo is signing this on the same date as his namesake. Leo the 12th signed his encyclical, which was about the Industrial Revolution.

01:05:22:05 - 01:05:23:06
Jason Howell
That's really interesting.

01:05:23:08 - 01:05:33:20
Jeff Jarvis
It really is really interesting. And I think we'll see that, what he cares about is humanity in this. I just read a.

01:05:33:22 - 01:05:55:17
Jeff Jarvis
In German. With the help of Google Translate, I read a Q&A with Paolo Benanti, who is seen as the Pope's AI guy. He wrote a book called Homo Faber, and it was interesting because I think I was trying to get some signal of where the where Leo was going to go with this, and I was gratified to see Benanti saying what I often say, which is that it's not the technology, it's the people.

01:05:55:20 - 01:06:15:27
Jeff Jarvis
It's us you have to be concerned with. It's how we use this, what we do with it. That's what we concern with and maintaining human dignity in the next age of technological revolution, and with the lessons we have from the past, with the lessons we have from the Industrial revolution, where does this go? So I'm really, really eager to read this when it comes out.

01:06:15:28 - 01:06:20:05
Jeff Jarvis
And so we'll we'll actually, in a rare moment here on a tech podcast, we'll tell you about it.

01:06:20:09 - 01:06:51:04
Jason Howell
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Bigger to to find out more about that too. Linus Torvalds says AI powered bug hunters have made the Linux security mailing list his words almost entirely unmanageable. And he says many researchers are just using the same AI tools, you know, to find the same bugs. And then they're flooding the list with a bunch of duplicate reports that their team then has to sort through Torvalds words.

01:06:51:06 - 01:07:14:22
Jason Howell
He put it this way, he said enormous duplication due to different people finding the same things with the same tools and creating what he called unnecessary pain and pointless make believe work. I mean, this is the this is the other side of AI is so good for finding bugs. A is it actually finding bugs? B does, you know, is they're all finding the same things and then submitting it.

01:07:14:22 - 01:07:34:03
Jason Howell
And so there's just an avalanche of these bug reports, and then you got people on the other end, having to sort through that and find, you know, signal to noise ratio. What does that look like? And he's just basically saying, if you want to actually add value, read the documentation, create a patch to and add some real value on top of what that AI did.

01:07:34:04 - 01:07:35:14
Jason Howell
So there you go.

01:07:35:16 - 01:07:52:21
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah. And I imagine the Torvalds is far from alone in how people are getting bombarded. Probably it's not just slop, but it's just people being able to do the same thing. It's what's interesting here. Yeah. It's not it's not for bad motive, but enough, enough. Okay. You can all do this.

01:07:52:23 - 01:07:54:02
Jason Howell
Yeah. How do.

01:07:54:02 - 01:07:54:26

You deduce.

01:07:54:28 - 01:08:00:24
Jason Howell
At that level? Yeah, yeah. Because if everyone's using the same tools.

01:08:01:00 - 01:08:21:05
Jeff Jarvis
There was a post that I think that I saved the other day. I didn't put it in the rundown just of the of the increase in content. And we know this. Right. But but it quantified it a bit. Well, that it struck me most is the really almost hockey stick increase in scientific papers. Now, it's not just because it could write, it's also because it can help with research.

01:08:21:05 - 01:08:35:23
Jeff Jarvis
It also can do other things. Right. But but there is a there is a huge increase in speech because of the talking machine. And again, it's not necessarily for bad ends in this case. But it's just enough.

01:08:35:26 - 01:08:48:10
Jason Howell
Yeah. Yeah. Real quick before moving on, I just want to call out Lee, who's watching live show says I work for Next ERA Energy. Oh, it's pretty huge deal for us. Thank you.

01:08:48:11 - 01:08:49:16
Jeff Jarvis
From inside.

01:08:49:17 - 01:09:19:12
Jason Howell
I imagine. So thank you for watching and for commenting. Appreciate that. Let's see here. Meta. Bringing virtual writing to everyone with meta Ray-Ban display display glasses. So this is neural handwriting via apps that are coming to the meta Ray-Ban display glasses I think I feel like we heard this. Maybe it was early news of this, but I feel like we heard this for something else.

01:09:19:12 - 01:09:21:23
Jason Howell
Maybe it was for Android XR or something.

01:09:21:26 - 01:09:29:00
Jeff Jarvis
Because I don't remember this. This is this is new. You've played with this, right? Have you have you played with the rest thing? If you had the chance to play with that.

01:09:29:04 - 01:09:30:06
Jason Howell
Oh this is with the wrist.

01:09:30:08 - 01:09:31:27
Jeff Jarvis
That's the thing is the wrist.

01:09:31:29 - 01:09:58:10
Jason Howell
Oh I see I understand now. No. So I haven't heard this news. No I actually haven't not, not this particular one. When I was in God was it Mobile World Congress I think last year I played with a different companies neural band and yeah, it was that was very interesting. But I haven't I haven't done it in kind of connection with a pair of like smart glasses that I'm wearing.

01:09:58:11 - 01:10:16:14
Jason Howell
Right. So but you know, you got to remember to wear the thing, I guess if it's a wristband, you know, it's not a big deal. Like I do have some smart glasses that come with a ring that you can where. But I don't know, the rings kind of cheap and flimsy and, like, I wouldn't want to wear the ring.

01:10:16:16 - 01:10:42:26
Jason Howell
A wristband like that could potentially, you know, kind of blend in with things. It could be more of a fashion kind of accessory sort of thing that that isn't so cheap. So I don't know, maybe maybe it's useful. Interesting timing though, because we had Google's audio glasses announcement at IO. So there you go. Elon Musk's x AI unveiling its first coding agent called Grok Build.

01:10:42:28 - 01:10:44:29
Jason Howell
Yes, they got a they got to get on it.

01:10:45:03 - 01:10:46:05
Jeff Jarvis
To catch up.

01:10:46:11 - 01:11:09:21
Jason Howell
Everybody's got to catch up. Cloud code doing what it's doing. Developer focus tools having some pretty significant traction right now. And so you know Rock's got to get in on that action. And then right before showtime, I saw a exclusive Wall Street Journal article saying OpenAI is preparing to file for an IPO very soon. The article says possibly by the end of this week.

01:11:09:26 - 01:11:14:10
Jason Howell
Don't really know any more details beyond that, but, could happen.

01:11:14:13 - 01:11:21:02
Jeff Jarvis
Very soon. Now that the case is out of the way, that's what enabled that's what's enabled now. So we're just waiting for that case to be to be okay.

01:11:21:02 - 01:11:32:18
Jason Howell
So that actually makes makes a lot more sense than for them to be like okay, cool. Yeah. We can put that behind us. Let's let's get back to business, make this happen.

01:11:32:21 - 01:11:38:16
Jeff Jarvis
If you had a whole bunch of spare money, would you invest in OpenAI?

01:11:38:18 - 01:11:58:18
Jason Howell
Boy oh, that's God, I don't want to answer that because, like, I do not listen to me for any financial advice, that's for sure. I don't know, like, if maybe, maybe I don't know. I don't invest in things like I don't invest in companies or anything like that. So. Well.

01:11:58:21 - 01:11:58:24
Jeff Jarvis
I.

01:11:58:24 - 01:11:59:18

Don't have a.

01:11:59:21 - 01:12:00:10
Jason Howell
Judgment in that.

01:12:00:11 - 01:12:03:28
Jeff Jarvis
If you have a mutual fund that ties to the Nasdaq or anything like that.

01:12:03:29 - 01:12:04:26

I.

01:12:04:28 - 01:12:16:09
Jason Howell
I yeah, that's true. That's a good point. But I don't, I don't like monitor the, the market and decide like I'm going to invest in them because I hear the I don't know. Would you, would you..

01:12:16:09 - 01:12:40:20
Jeff Jarvis
I think it'll rise very fast on the first day. Then I think gravity will take it down. I think some reality I think there'll be there'll be some, some pent up demand for it. But they've got to catch up. And I think there's going to be a lot of tough analysts and journalists writing about OpenAI and the trouble that it's in right now.

01:12:40:22 - 01:13:00:16
Jeff Jarvis
If they could only have gone public a year ago, they would have been in better shape. But now they've got anthropic ahead of them. Google ahead of them. I mean, theoretically I buy it on the on a big dip, but not right after the open after the IPO.

01:13:00:18 - 01:13:02:21
Jason Howell
And don't take our our.

01:13:02:22 - 01:13:05:20
Jeff Jarvis
No do not take our. No don't do this at home kids.

01:13:05:23 - 01:13:22:22
Jason Howell
Do not do not. You can do whatever you want but don't do it because we told you. Yes or no, that's for sure. At least I can speak for myself. That is absolutely the case for me. Cool. Well, we have reached the end of this episode of AI inside with new artwork and all sorts of fun things to announce and everything.

01:13:22:23 - 01:13:34:28
Jason Howell
Jeff and Jeff, you have the book in hand now. It's tangible, it's real. That's got to feel good. That's a that's a cool milestone to get to. It does, you know, to open that box and be like, oh, there it is.

01:13:35:00 - 01:13:40:21
Jeff Jarvis
Well, actually, the funny story is the publisher found a typo in the back cover.

01:13:40:23 - 01:13:41:17

Oh no.

01:13:41:18 - 01:14:01:08
Jeff Jarvis
So I think they're going to have to reprint the cover and jacket, the books in the warehouse which will delay the arrival in the UK, not in the US. It's August 20th pub date. So it's sort of right time it or right moment it said wri and how the heck did that happen? And the publisher looked at what he proved and didn't have it.

01:14:01:08 - 01:14:25:27
Jeff Jarvis
And I looked at what I'd approved. Didn't have it. You know how that happened after Investigation Technology when they they used InDesign and when they transfer to make the final PDF for reproduction, InDesign. A lot of the commands the publisher told me use W. So apparently what it was done, the precursor was in the wrong spot. There was an errant W and it went into the text.

01:14:25:29 - 01:14:27:23
Jeff Jarvis
Just the nightmare kind of stuff that happens.

01:14:27:24 - 01:14:28:24
Jason Howell
That sucks.

01:14:28:26 - 01:14:30:18

It's not a blurb. Is it better?

01:14:30:20 - 01:14:35:06
Jason Howell
Is it better that it happened that way and not a typo inside of the book?

01:14:35:09 - 01:14:37:14
Jeff Jarvis
There's always typos inside of the books.

01:14:37:16 - 01:14:38:20
Jason Howell
There's always going to be something.

01:14:38:21 - 01:14:38:26

Yeah.

01:14:38:29 - 01:14:42:16
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, you can, you can, you can correct them on the next printing. Now that's pretty easy to do because.

01:14:42:21 - 01:14:44:14

There is.

01:14:44:16 - 01:14:50:21
Jeff Jarvis
But the cover, just as the new book comes out in a blurb about the guy that I.

01:14:50:23 - 01:14:51:00

Yeah.

01:14:51:02 - 01:14:52:17
Jeff Jarvis
I idolize.

01:14:52:20 - 01:14:53:16

Yeah. You got to have.

01:14:53:21 - 01:14:57:14
Jeff Jarvis
A history. Yeah. I let him know about it just to know that. Yeah.

01:14:57:16 - 01:14:58:00

You got it.

01:14:58:05 - 01:15:01:23
Jeff Jarvis
So it's great to have it. But this is the problem with atoms, folks.

01:15:02:00 - 01:15:03:10
Jason Howell
Yeah.

01:15:03:12 - 01:15:05:06
Jeff Jarvis
It's not as easy to change as bits.

01:15:05:08 - 01:15:09:06
Jason Howell
At least you caught it. Yeah. At least it was caught. And and it's being.

01:15:09:09 - 01:15:13:02
Jeff Jarvis
The publisher saw it on the train on the way home, and I can't imagine how he gulped.

01:15:13:04 - 01:15:13:14

Oh.

01:15:13:15 - 01:15:35:14
Jason Howell
I can only imagine, boy. Well, Jeff Jarvis com you can see the cover that has no typos on it whatsoever. And you can preorder also Gutenberg parenthesis magazine and the web we we've and new book series intelligence AI and humanity coming someday soon from Bloomsbury and Jeff Jarvis. Thank you Jeff.

01:15:35:15 - 01:15:36:16

Thank you both.

01:15:36:18 - 01:15:44:15
Jason Howell
As for me. Sure. Pod tuneup com for podcast consulting. I'm also doing AI consulting. Lots of consulting happening right now.

01:15:44:18 - 01:15:45:03

Because you should.

01:15:45:03 - 01:15:45:24
Jeff Jarvis
Consult with Jason.

01:15:45:24 - 01:15:48:24

Because he's really smart. Yeah, well thank you. And he knows his stuff.

01:15:49:02 - 01:16:01:18
Jason Howell
If you need to contact me, go to pod tune up. Even if it's for the I consulting, you just go there right now. I don't know how I'm gonna. There's a lot of uncertainty around, like, how I. How I promote this stuff. So anyways, just go there. You can find.

01:16:01:21 - 01:16:01:26

He's.

01:16:01:26 - 01:16:03:23
Jeff Jarvis
Being too humble.

01:16:03:26 - 01:16:12:16
Jason Howell
AI inside show with the brand new podcast art. It's funny that earlier I couldn't I couldn't figure out how to pull up the art. Oh, right. Go to the website.

01:16:12:18 - 01:16:13:15

That's right.

01:16:13:18 - 01:16:23:00
Jason Howell
That would have been a really good, easy way to do it. So there we go. AI Insight Show for everything you need to know about this show. Patreon.com.

01:16:23:03 - 01:16:45:03
Jason Howell
Inside Show. If you want to support us on Patreon, you can do that. We have some amazing executive producers doctor Do Jeffrey Marikina Radio Asheville 103.7 Dante, Saint James Bond, Derek. Jason. Jason. Brady, Anthony. Downs, Marc. Starker and Karsten. And maybe you I don't know. You know we're doing daily podcast now so maybe we can get you into that tier as well.

01:16:45:04 - 01:16:47:22

Thank you for those who come live.

01:16:47:24 - 01:17:05:29
Jeff Jarvis
Who are in the comments. Daniel Croft always. Always reliable here, I hope I don't pronounce this Saba, who left a nice comment before Jesse Scott. Who else is here w x Rohmer and Lee woods talking in from Next Energy. Thank you for coming in and thank you for joining the chat too. We really like that.

01:17:06:00 - 01:17:18:25
Jason Howell
Indeed. Yeah. Thank you for the for the call out there. So great to have you all here and good to see you Jeff. We will see you next time on another episode of the AI inside podcast. Have a wonderful week. Hi everybody.