Google's New Laptop Category is Called Googlebook

00:00:00:09 - 00:00:30:07
Jason Howell
Coming up next, Jeff Jarvis and I dig into Google's big Android event in the Gemini infused Google Book laptop. That creates some, I'd say, a little bit of uncertainty around Chrome OS, but I don't think things are going to change that much, at least not in the near term. OpenAI jumps into the consulting business with a $14 billion company that we've talked about in previous episodes mirror, mirror, New Startup, and it's all about building conversational AI that can actually interrupt you mid-sentence, apparently.

00:00:30:07 - 00:00:53:21
Jason Howell
Claude, you know, as we've talked in the past. Threatening engineers with blackmail. Well, we investigate why that actually was. There's new information on that that's coming up next on this episode of the AI inside podcast.

00:00:53:24 - 00:01:14:02
Jason Howell
And welcome to yet another episode of the AI Inside Podcast, the show where we take a look at the AI that is layered throughout the world of technology. So much fun to follow all of the news stories. It's an avalanche. It really is. I'm one of your host, Jason. How joined as always by my other co-host, my my friend Jeff Jarvis.

00:01:14:03 - 00:01:14:28
Jason Howell
Good to see you, Jeff.

00:01:14:29 - 00:01:23:15
Jeff Jarvis
Good to see you. And I think we should start off with some exciting news you have for the AI inside Empire. Should we start right off with that plug?

00:01:23:22 - 00:01:45:17
Jason Howell
I mean, I think might as well. I think it's very. If I can pull it up here, it's not the most engaging thumbnail, but. So, yeah, a couple of weeks ago I was like, how can we bring more value to our patrons? How can we incentivize new people to kind of come through the door and check out what we're doing in Patreon, not just paid, but also free?

00:01:45:17 - 00:02:04:28
Jason Howell
And then and then also, selfishly, how can I be even closer to the news on a regular daily basis and understand what's going on? And I'm a very impulsive person. I thought of like launching an AI inside, like shorter daily version, and so I just did it.

00:02:05:00 - 00:02:05:28
Jeff Jarvis
I was actually.

00:02:06:01 - 00:02:07:09
Jason Howell
Thinking too much about it.

00:02:07:10 - 00:02:18:04
Jeff Jarvis
I was actually thinking two weeks ago last week when we did the show, honest to God, I was thinking then, you know, this could be daily. I didn't say it out loud, but yeah, there's so much news going on.

00:02:18:05 - 00:02:36:00
Jason Howell
I mean, it really is. It's ongoing. It's an onslaught of news. And when we do the weekly show that we're doing right now, you know, we can we it's an hour and it's more of a conversational flow. We pick like maybe like eight stories that we talk about, but that's like a fraction of what happens throughout the week.

00:02:36:00 - 00:03:00:23
Jason Howell
And so my thought is basically the pitch is this right now there is a five day a week new podcast that you can get if you follow the AI Inside Patreon account. So go to Patreon.com Sideshow, become a free member of the Patreon, and for right now, you get access to the daily podcast. It's every morning at this point, I've been testing it for about a week and a half.

00:03:00:23 - 00:03:06:14
Jason Howell
It's every morning, but there's no exact time when it publishes. But sometime in the morning, five days a week.

00:03:06:15 - 00:03:08:03
Jeff Jarvis
Morning, Jason. It's time.

00:03:08:08 - 00:03:09:27
Jason Howell
Yes. But yeah. Pacific time. Yeah.

00:03:09:28 - 00:03:17:28
Jeff Jarvis
That's these these Californians just think the world revolves around them. I'm in the center of the damn universe. But. Okay, let's go ahead. My morning, my morning.

00:03:17:28 - 00:03:37:09
Jason Howell
Jeff. So I guess it's afternoon for you when today's published. But anyways, I'm just picking, like, 3 to 5 of the stories from the previous 24 hours. That kind of stood out to me as important. And creating like a 5 to 8 minute daily podcast. That is what's going on in those stories. How like what occurs to me?

00:03:37:09 - 00:03:56:03
Jason Howell
How does it how do I feel about us not just regurgitating news? It's some insight and it helps inform me for this show too, which is kind of like the byproduct of it, which I'm loving, is it gives me more of a holistic, kind of comprehensive understanding of what's going on. And I think it would for you to so free until May 25th.

00:03:56:06 - 00:04:18:17
Jason Howell
On May 25th, which is a Monday, it becomes a paid perk for the tiers $5 and up. So essentially think of it like this. If you are a paid patron at $5, suddenly you will find yourself with 20 plus episodes per month that you get for that $5, which I think is pretty insane value. So there you go.

00:04:18:22 - 00:04:24:23
Jason Howell
Learn. Learn more about what's going on in AI Patreon.com, AI inside show for AI Inside Daily.

00:04:24:26 - 00:04:33:08
Jeff Jarvis
There you go. And I'm fully backing Jason becoming, as I just said, more. I'm deciding whether it's AI guy, AI man, AI boy, I think AI guy I think that's the.

00:04:33:08 - 00:04:34:08
Jason Howell
One I guy sure.

00:04:34:08 - 00:04:47:17
Jeff Jarvis
I can. I got more and more because Jason is also looking at doing a local event in Petaluma, bringing people together, kind of a seminar. Work workshop. Yeah, right.

00:04:47:20 - 00:04:54:17
Jason Howell
How to think about AI, how to use AI. That's not just thinking about doing. It's happening. I've had an insane response here.

00:04:54:17 - 00:05:01:27
Jeff Jarvis
In here. More about that. The second. Let's add on to that. He's also advising local businesses. And you will be anywhere as local now folks.

00:05:01:27 - 00:05:02:16
Jason Howell
So it's.

00:05:02:16 - 00:05:14:17
Jeff Jarvis
Cool, right? If you need help in terms of how to how to understand this for your business and your employees, Jason's there for that too. So I think it's exciting that this really lets you focus on on AI and its practical use.

00:05:14:20 - 00:05:15:26
Jason Howell
Yeah. Thank you Jeff.

00:05:15:27 - 00:05:17:15
Jeff Jarvis
Talk about the local event more.

00:05:17:16 - 00:05:34:22
Jason Howell
It's been really interesting. Very suddenly in the last couple of months it's been like, oh, I should follow these breadcrumb trails. And they're leading to really cool places. Yeah, I just I just posted on Facebook to a bunch of my local community because my wife does a lot of community work, and I constantly find myself being like, God, I would love to do that too.

00:05:34:22 - 00:05:53:12
Jason Howell
But like, what would I bring to the community, you know, outside of just podcasting on the internet? And then it kind of occurred to me, like, I've talked to a lot of people outside of the text, fear, who say very similar things. They say, oh, okay, so AI is interesting. I don't know how I feel about it. I opened up a ChatGPT and it gave me poor output, so I haven't touched it again.

00:05:53:12 - 00:06:11:08
Jason Howell
Or yeah, I use ChatGPT sometimes, but like, what is Claude? What are all these things? And I was like, well, I've been living this stuff for the last couple of years, why don't I just like, hold an event and show you the differences between these two things, how you can apply it to your daily life or your career or whatever, and unique and interesting ways.

00:06:11:08 - 00:06:31:12
Jason Howell
What is an agent? What could an agent actually do for you if you set up a scheduled task? All those things and I put out a post on Facebook and, and like set a goal for myself of like, you know, if I could hear from 25 people that they're interested, then it's game on. And I mean, within 24 hours it surpassed 25 and it continues to grow.

00:06:31:16 - 00:06:35:14
Jason Howell
So yeah. Interesting. I'll follow that breadcrumb trail, see where it leads to.

00:06:35:20 - 00:06:39:03
Jeff Jarvis
That's really cool. So yeah, a lot a lot happening from this Lucas.

00:06:39:05 - 00:07:03:20
Jason Howell
Yeah. Fun times. And I mean, you know, all feeding into, you know, taking it back to this show, all feeding into our overall understanding of what's going on. And hopefully we, you know, that enables us to do a better job of communicating to you what's happening in the world of AI and understanding it on a deeper level. So, so that is that so great for giving me the opportunity to talk about it, Jeff, I appreciate that.

00:07:03:26 - 00:07:06:05
Jason Howell
Why don't we talk about some news? Because that is.

00:07:06:05 - 00:07:08:15
Jeff Jarvis
The second most exciting news this week.

00:07:08:17 - 00:07:18:12
Jason Howell
That is at the end of the day, why we're here doing what we do. So yeah. So Google had a big week. I know you know this Jeff, because you were following. Did you watch the Android? I did, which.

00:07:18:12 - 00:07:26:28
Jeff Jarvis
Was I did actually which it kind of feels silly that I put it in my calendar to watch. It's on YouTube. It's recorded. I could have watched it at 3:00. It didn't matter. But I watched his life.

00:07:27:00 - 00:07:30:23
Jason Howell
There's something about a live event, right?

00:07:30:26 - 00:07:36:28
Jeff Jarvis
And they teased it. Well, they said, we have something new at the end. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah. But.

00:07:37:05 - 00:07:39:14
Jason Howell
So were you expecting a Google book?

00:07:39:16 - 00:07:40:10
Jeff Jarvis
No.

00:07:40:12 - 00:07:41:12
Jason Howell
No you weren't.

00:07:41:15 - 00:07:56:10
Jeff Jarvis
We've been waiting for a long time for aluminum or aluminum or whatever you want to call it. Yeah. For the, for the marriage of, of Chrome OS and Android to come. Didn't know what form it would take. I didn't expect a whole new hardware line.

00:07:56:12 - 00:08:15:09
Jason Howell
Yeah. So that is one. One interesting thing I did ask Google not during. So we had an interview on Android Faithful with Android President Samir Smart. He's actually been on this show. I interviewed him at Mobile World Congress a little more than a year ago. Great guy, talked to him many times and I failed to ask him during the interview.

00:08:15:09 - 00:08:36:05
Jason Howell
So I followed up with Google afterwards to say, is the Google book running aluminum OS? Like everything that we've heard about aluminum OS is that this is a version of Android that's been created for laptops and blah, blah, blah. Google would not confirm nor deny that this was aluminum OS, but it's kind of hard to expect that it's not.

00:08:36:08 - 00:08:36:28
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah. What are they?

00:08:36:29 - 00:08:37:12
Jason Howell
What else would.

00:08:37:12 - 00:08:46:10
Jeff Jarvis
It be? Bronze OS next to it? I mean. Yeah, it's it's Yeah, that's what it is. So you want to describe the, the what all it does first and then we'll get into it.

00:08:46:11 - 00:09:07:24
Jason Howell
Yeah. I mean basically this is their laptop that is built you, as they say in their little their little image here. If you're watching the video version designed for Gemini from the ground up. And basically this is the pitches that this takes. The best things from Android, the best things for Chrome OS and kind of smashes them together with Gemini AI kind of layered throughout.

00:09:07:24 - 00:09:39:00
Jason Howell
So for example, there is, you know, something they call what do they call it, the smart cursor or no, sorry, the magic pointer way I was off the magic pointer, which is essentially your mouse pointer, but it is a Gemini infused mouse pointer. So when you shake your mouse, it turns into kind of a Gemini touch point that depending on where it is, what it's hovered over, what it's clicked into, suddenly it brings that as a contextual signal into Gemini and gives you immediately access.

00:09:39:00 - 00:09:54:24
Jason Howell
So they're really thinking about how can we take this laptop form factor and kind of bring AI further into it in useful ways? It's a little, you know, a little ballsy to mess around with something like the cursor that we're so used to using in a.

00:09:54:24 - 00:09:55:18
Jeff Jarvis
Certain.

00:09:55:21 - 00:09:56:05
Jason Howell
Kind of way.

00:09:56:06 - 00:10:15:22
Jeff Jarvis
But it is. It is another surface, as they like to say in this world. Yeah, that's been unexploited. There were companies way back when in my in my days working for Advanced Publications, I came across companies that did try to do this at the time that if you did, the cursor could become its own context aware entry. And there were a few startups that try to do this.

00:10:15:22 - 00:10:31:24
Jeff Jarvis
But problem is, you had to you had it was an extension. It never made sense just in terms of the architecture. So it's been I think it's been waiting for this kind of exploitation that it's a whole nother area. It knows your context, it knows what you're pointing to. One more second here. I'm so old. How old am I?

00:10:31:24 - 00:10:51:27
Jeff Jarvis
I'm so old that that when I was in the Chicago Tribune has bought a nipper. I trained the newsroom in computers. And if you think back this far, no one knew what a cursor was. And it was a new concept to people. And I had to again and again. No, no, no. The computer doesn't know what you want to do until you point it at the right spot.

00:10:51:28 - 00:11:04:28
Jeff Jarvis
The cursor is where you know it's going to do that. Right? And so the concept of the cursor is so much part of our worldview. Now was new at some point, and it could have taken many different forms. And it has. And now it's taken a new form. Sorry. Go ahead.

00:11:04:29 - 00:11:27:15
Jason Howell
Now it's taken a new form. It's not entirely new. It's not like a new, you know, as the word that, that you will never want to say paradigm. It's not a new paradigm in computer control, but it's like an extension of it. And I think the, you know, the the question to be answered eventually is is it a meaningful addition, right?

00:11:27:15 - 00:11:58:12
Jason Howell
Or is this just another, another Gemini add on or tack on that, you know, fizzles out because nobody uses it that way over time? That remains to be seen. But I think it's but I think it's interesting because how often am I working in a computer kind of desktop environment that I want to get context on something I'm looking at, and sometimes the easiest way or the most direct way for me to do that is to like take a screenshot, grab the screenshot, import it into the chat, and then ask me to ask the question or whatever.

00:11:58:14 - 00:12:15:09
Jason Howell
There are some, you know, some shortcuts that you can do to summarize some in Gemini and just do that all in one swoop. It depends on what we're used to, but we are already using the cursor. We're already pointing at things that were entirely focused on in that very moment. So maybe that makes a lot of sense. I don't know, I'll be curious.

00:12:15:10 - 00:12:25:11
Jeff Jarvis
And it's readily available. It's not like saying, oh, there's a new function, an android. You got to remember to go ask for it or use it or find it somewhere. This is just a shake away.

00:12:25:14 - 00:12:49:09
Jason Howell
Yeah, it's just a shake away. AI is just a shake away. That could totally be the title today. You know, I shake my cursor on my Mac, but I do it because when I do it. It makes the cursor larger. You can't see it in the video that I'm sending you, but when I do it over here, it enlarges the cursor, because often there's so much density of information on my screen that I can't find the cursor in there.

00:12:49:10 - 00:12:50:06
Jeff Jarvis
Is that a feature you can.

00:12:50:06 - 00:12:52:26
Jason Howell
Turn on? Yeah, yeah, that's a feature in Mac OS has been.

00:12:52:26 - 00:12:53:14
Jeff Jarvis
Around.

00:12:53:16 - 00:13:13:12
Jason Howell
For years and I use it all the time. So I'm wondering if there's going to be a little bit of confusion of the shake to find cursor versus shake to find information, I guess. But yeah. Well, and you have your own kind of story that you bring to this too, because you've you've been with Chrome OS for for many years.

00:13:13:15 - 00:13:42:12
Jason Howell
You've worked with Chrome OS. I don't think that this is necessarily and Samir Samat acknowledged as much in our interview. This isn't as much a replacement for Chrome OS, at least not now. That's my insertion. For right now. Chrome OS serves a very specific purpose in their lineup, very dialed into education. Google's making a bank off of that fact that how adopted it is in the educational market.

00:13:42:15 - 00:14:02:00
Jason Howell
I don't think they want to mess with that, and maybe they will eventually, but right now they definitely don't. And somewhat Sameer Smart was basically like, no, Chrome OS has its place. This is just we've heard from people that they want a better, more improved, more capable laptop from us. And so here it is. This thing is kind of the next step up.

00:14:02:00 - 00:14:10:12
Jason Howell
It's premium hardware. It's you know, the software is is thoughtfully done around this kind of moment. We're in with artificial intelligence.

00:14:10:14 - 00:14:31:27
Jeff Jarvis
So the good news I saw in follow up reporting is they do say that some of the present Chromebooks will be able to get this experience. They won't have the color bar, but they'll be able to get this. I'm hoping I have a Samsung Lenovo here. It says they're right. And so I'm hoping the other hand having to get another moonshine wouldn't be bad.

00:14:31:27 - 00:14:58:02
Jeff Jarvis
I get the cool color bar, but but I'm obviously eager to get this. The other interesting to me here is the competitive nature of this is that now I have a Apple neo. This is the competitor to the old Chromebook, I think, and the Google Book is a is a new higher end. It's going to be more expensive than the neo or your basic Chromebooks.

00:14:58:03 - 00:15:27:17
Jeff Jarvis
Basic Chromebooks are cheaper than Neos, and so they needed to find something premium here. .1.2 is we keep on debating where is there the hardware play in AI. And we've been talking about new devices, things you put, you know, glue onto your body somehow. The answer may be something that is in fact designed with AI. They tried to make that argument with Chromebook Plus in the in the in the machine I have this Lenovo and a few others.

00:15:27:17 - 00:15:30:11
Jason Howell
That's right, the Chromebook plus I forgot about that. Yeah you're right.

00:15:30:12 - 00:15:58:04
Jeff Jarvis
And but it really wasn't from from ground up. So it'll be interesting to see what else gets added here. .2.3 is the link to Android. And that's one thing that the Apple ecosystem has better. And now if you're in the Android ecosystem and the Google ecosystem, I think you're going to have much more fluidity back and forth. The problem now, it used to be that I could get Android apps on my Chromebook.

00:15:58:06 - 00:16:07:10
Jeff Jarvis
They disabled that I think even tells me if I try to open one, I have tons of them here and it'll tell me nope, sorry, you can't do that anymore.

00:16:07:17 - 00:16:09:09
Jason Howell
Did you use them a lot on Chromebook?

00:16:09:10 - 00:16:18:20
Jeff Jarvis
I didn't, yeah, because it was a separate thing. .1.2. They weren't optimized for a laptop. Yeah. Point three.

00:16:18:24 - 00:16:21:28
Jason Howell
You could, but yeah, I never found myself needing to.

00:16:21:29 - 00:16:33:22
Jeff Jarvis
Or I got frustrated a few times. I accidentally said yes. Open the app when it comes to this. So so rather than looking at YouTube on the browser, it would open the damned app and the damned app was limited, and I had to turn that off in all cases. Yeah, it.

00:16:33:22 - 00:16:35:08
Jason Howell
Wasn't right. Oh yeah.

00:16:35:09 - 00:16:53:22
Jeff Jarvis
But I think that if you. But so Chrome Chrome has not been app centric for quite some time. There's, there's PWAs but there's there's not really an app ecosystem. So now any app you have on your Android phone will be able to be used fluidly on your laptop.

00:16:53:24 - 00:17:13:09
Jason Howell
And it's not emulation. It's not like squished in there. The laptop is running a version of Android, and so it is kind of like a native thing. You know, we've been hearing for years about this desktop experience for Android. I mean, all of these lines are converging here with Google Book. You know, is Google Book as powerful as my MacBook Pro?

00:17:13:10 - 00:17:34:02
Jason Howell
No, no. Like, is it going to be able to do all the things that like my, my, you know, top tier laptop from Apple is is going to be able to do. No, it's probably better in some ways than neo. Neo might actually still be better than this in some ways as well. Because if it's just Android versus Neo, being able to run like a full scale, like Final Cut Pro on it, which I'm sure it's capable of doing.

00:17:34:04 - 00:17:53:21
Jason Howell
So same same, but different in depending on how you look at it. But definitely a step up for Google. And I'll be curious with Android apps being less of a. Oh, and by the way, we figured out how to make this work and more like a oh, you know, this is just built the same way. So yes, of course it runs those apps.

00:17:53:22 - 00:18:02:14
Jason Howell
Our developers going to create their apps in a way that makes it more appealing in a laptop form factor. That's a real big question. You know.

00:18:02:15 - 00:18:16:06
Jeff Jarvis
The other thing here, I think it was Paul Throat's report on this concerned, are they going to put an Android browser on this or the desktop browser? It's the desktop browser. So you're going to have a good browser here. And I think that's going to matter.

00:18:16:06 - 00:18:21:24
Jason Howell
So that will matter because that desktop browser can do a lot of things that the mobile browser is not capable of doing.

00:18:21:26 - 00:18:37:15
Jeff Jarvis
Exactly, exactly. And what if Google, if you're listening, make sure that we workspace people are treated fairly in this? That's all I'm asking. It's all I'm asking. I'm dying to get it I can't wait. Don't make me mad now. Don't disappoint me.

00:18:37:17 - 00:18:40:21
Jason Howell
Don't do it. You don't want to see Jeff get mad about this?

00:18:40:22 - 00:18:58:28
Jeff Jarvis
No, sir. Now that I got it all working. And by the way, by the way, I got asked Gemini on my browser. I use it all the time. I use it constantly. I usually to summarize really long, ridiculous, boring articles and posts, but for other things as well. So. But. Which also speaks to the idea of the shaky cursor.

00:18:58:29 - 00:19:23:03
Jeff Jarvis
I think to be able to have Gemini at the hand anywhere and anything you do here and it's context aware and you can go do more, I think it's going to be really, really valuable. So that's often I can't wait. The other thing is which manufacturers and which chips? I'm really happy with the Lenovo MediaTek chip. It's fanless, it's fast.

00:19:23:04 - 00:19:29:21
Jeff Jarvis
It's good. So which machines which which which structure they have will be interesting to see how.

00:19:29:26 - 00:19:35:28
Jason Howell
They have announced their partners on this. Acer, Asus, Dell, HP, Lenovo all building some of the first devices.

00:19:35:28 - 00:19:38:02
Jeff Jarvis
No mention of Samsung.

00:19:38:04 - 00:19:43:18
Jason Howell
No mention of Samsung, although I'd be really surprised if that would happen. Samsung. Google definitely getting more cozy.

00:19:43:20 - 00:19:51:03
Jeff Jarvis
These these these are the ones who will be ready by fall. So I think we're going to we're going to learn more at IO next week. Right. Are you going to Ireland?

00:19:51:09 - 00:20:01:00
Jason Howell
Maybe. Yeah. Yeah, I'll definitely be there. Which I don't think that it impacts this shows schedule because I'm there Tuesday. I'm not there Wednesday. It doesn't I don't go.

00:20:01:00 - 00:20:03:04
Jeff Jarvis
On the second day doesn't really. Yeah.

00:20:03:09 - 00:20:15:00
Jason Howell
Yeah. So I'll be there Tuesday. Wednesday. We'll talk all about it for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if they're going to talk on a deep level about this. They might mention they're probably going to mention and you probably saw last last week we mentioned.

00:20:15:02 - 00:20:18:10
Jeff Jarvis
Well they'll have a tent for it I'll bet maybe.

00:20:18:11 - 00:20:18:17
Jason Howell
Yeah.

00:20:18:17 - 00:20:19:08
Jeff Jarvis
They could go.

00:20:19:08 - 00:20:38:05
Jason Howell
See I'm not entirely certain that they will because they're really I mean actually they probably will. They're just their promotion for this has been very elusive. Like, here's the core of the keyboard. Here's the light bar on the outside, but there's no full monty shot. And so maybe that'll be a Google I o that yeah that could actually happen.

00:20:38:05 - 00:20:39:01
Jeff Jarvis
So Chromebooks.

00:20:39:02 - 00:20:40:10
Jason Howell
See it. I'll send you a photo.

00:20:40:11 - 00:20:44:12
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, yeah. If they give one away I'm going to be pissed I didn't go I got invited.

00:20:44:14 - 00:20:46:18
Jason Howell
No, they don't have any more way.

00:20:46:21 - 00:21:09:27
Jeff Jarvis
That was expensive of the day. John Melita did an interview with Chrome on Boxed and I watched Chrome Unboxed all the time for this Chromebook news because I'm wacky and weird. And he said he was he he did the show from his Google book. He also said it was interesting at the beginning. He said he used the word Google book, and he said that is the first time I have said that word anywhere outside of Google or in much of inside Google.

00:21:09:27 - 00:21:14:14
Jeff Jarvis
They were so secretive on the branding. What do you think of the branding?

00:21:14:16 - 00:21:35:26
Jason Howell
So I was thinking about this yesterday, and I don't know if I can put it into words eloquently. Do I hate the the the word Google book or the, the the word mark or whatever you want to call it Google Book? No. Let's see here. How do I how do I put this pixel, is there premium hardware for phones?

00:21:36:03 - 00:21:44:05
Jason Howell
And I would think that a Pixelbook would be their premium hardware for computers, but it's not because Pixelbook already existed. That was.

00:21:44:06 - 00:21:44:11
Jeff Jarvis
And.

00:21:44:11 - 00:21:49:28
Jason Howell
Is made by Google's and is made by Google. And so this is Google Book.

00:21:50:00 - 00:21:52:21
Jeff Jarvis
Not made by Google.

00:21:52:23 - 00:21:58:11
Jason Howell
Yeah that's true. Well, no, I mean this Google book. Did they say that this Google book is not made by Google?

00:21:58:16 - 00:22:01:18
Jeff Jarvis
It's not. It's one of those vendors.

00:22:01:21 - 00:22:05:03
Jason Howell
Well, I'm wondering I'm wondering if they have their own version of it.

00:22:05:04 - 00:22:15:11
Jeff Jarvis
They've been asked that. And so far there a silent about that as they are about aluminum which could be could mean yes or no, but no. The the machines coming out this fall or from those vendors. Not from Google.

00:22:15:14 - 00:22:20:14
Jason Howell
Not from Google. Okay. That's a detail that I missed. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well then.

00:22:20:14 - 00:22:24:27
Jeff Jarvis
That's a little confusing is that you got a Google book from Lenovo.

00:22:24:27 - 00:22:30:09
Jason Howell
So then so then maybe, maybe eventually Google comes out with its own Google book.

00:22:30:12 - 00:22:32:03
Jeff Jarvis
What's that, the Google Google book.

00:22:32:08 - 00:22:37:11
Jason Howell
It's the Pixelbook they redefine because they have no problems redefining their names.

00:22:37:14 - 00:22:39:24
Jeff Jarvis
They've been branding is just not. Yeah.

00:22:39:27 - 00:23:03:14
Jason Howell
They they go they go in full circles. Sometimes they come right back around to it years later. So I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah. That's interesting. I do also know there was a leak of aluminum OS that we talked about on last nights. We have a bonus show for Android Faithful called After Hours. So we talked about it on that and it was like a 12 minute software leak of aluminum OS.

00:23:03:14 - 00:23:21:03
Jason Howell
And it looks very different from what's in the Google book promos, which had me thinking, wait a minute, are these two different things? Maybe Google Book isn't aluminum, but what I think I came to is when we talk about Android on a phone, we talk about AOSp, which is like your baseline. This is Android on a phone. It's no frills.

00:23:21:03 - 00:23:43:06
Jason Howell
It does all the things, but it's not, you know, special Google ified. And then you've got the pixel OS version that has all the extra stuff. It has the Gemini baked in, it has the material, three expressive design elements. It looks googly. And maybe that's what's going on here, is that aluminum OS has its baseline, and then it has the one that's Google's version of it, which is what we're seeing here.

00:23:43:12 - 00:24:10:12
Jason Howell
So I don't know who knows. We're all guessing. You know what that all means. And everything. Another thing related to this. And then we can probably move on because wow, it's already been a half an hour. Yeah. Android 17 has some AI stuff coming to it. We're getting, in app like app agents, Inter app agents. So the ability for agents on your smartphone to reach into certain apps and everything, that kind of hints at the thing.

00:24:10:12 - 00:24:31:10
Jason Howell
We talk about a post app world where agents just do all our stuff on our mobile devices. ChatGPT coming out with a smartphone, apparently, and it would be leaning heavily into that. So this could be the first kind of, I don't know, way to test that out for general consumer. That's interesting. Chrome browser on Android also being having agent capabilities.

00:24:31:10 - 00:24:51:27
Jason Howell
That's interesting. And then a feature called Rambler which is part of Gboard, which is the keyboard on Android, which essentially if I'm doing voice input, I would just say whatever I'm going to say with all my ums and pause and changing my lines and everything like that. And oh no, you know what? Actually what I meant to say is blah, blah, blah.

00:24:51:28 - 00:25:11:12
Jason Howell
And then you hit the Rambler button and it basically takes all the important things and just condenses it so that it's from you and it's the important information. And the other stuff just kind of gets thrown out. And I don't know, it may seem simple and silly and maybe it won't work as well as Google thinks it will, but that's how I use AI a lot now.

00:25:11:12 - 00:25:18:24
Jason Howell
I just ramble and it figures it out. So I'm kind of like, oh well, that makes sense that there would be a feature like that. I'll probably use that.

00:25:18:24 - 00:25:28:05
Jeff Jarvis
The other thing they talked about was more personalization and kind of more customizability. And the widgets you can create. Yeah.

00:25:28:05 - 00:25:45:17
Jason Howell
And that's that's an easy one to think that it's insignificant. But I actually think that's a big deal because it's basically it's vibe coding for everyone. It's a have access. I have the ability very easily with my voice to create a widget that does whatever I want it to do. I've got a race coming up in three weeks.

00:25:45:17 - 00:26:01:10
Jason Howell
I want a widget that counts down to that and reminds me to take my vitamins or whatever the case may be, and you use your voice to do that. It creates a widget that you can that blends in with your interface, you know, follows the material, three expressive design touches, and you just throw it on your home screen.

00:26:01:10 - 00:26:13:14
Jason Howell
And that could be the entry point for people to realize, oh, wait a minute, now I now I get it. Now I can understand this idea of using my voice to create a very specific app that's tailored to me, which is another topic that we've talked about.

00:26:13:14 - 00:26:31:10
Jeff Jarvis
A lot. The only one issue I think with that is to me, I don't use widgets on my phone. I just have the apps here on the phone, you know, that's that's all I've got a clock widget, that's it. Right. So there's limited screen space and on my laptop, I don't care what the screensaver is, I'm never there.

00:26:31:15 - 00:26:52:16
Jeff Jarvis
I always have the browser open, full stop. So the problem with the notion of the widget is a territorial scarcity. Right? And I want to be able to think that widgets are on a whole other plane. And the way you've just described them is that it's not about seeing something on my screen, it's that it's that it is, as you just described it, an agent that is doing something for me on an ongoing basis.

00:26:52:17 - 00:27:00:08
Jeff Jarvis
And I can come back to it and it comes back to me in some way that's valuable. And I think that's going to be a different a UI challenge to figure out.

00:27:00:09 - 00:27:23:23
Jason Howell
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Could be. So yeah. Okay. You know, Google, Google Week one of two in which we'll talk about it at length because they're smart. I mean, you know, they did this one week early partially because Android as a company effort, it's not insignificant, but it's kind of taken a backseat to their AI push. And so the developer conference has become very much about AI.

00:27:23:28 - 00:27:35:17
Jason Howell
And, you know, the last couple of years, this year and last year, they just decided like, okay, well then let's give Android its own week to shine. And I think a lot of these are actually pretty, pretty strong announcements.

00:27:35:17 - 00:27:38:06
Jeff Jarvis
They are. And it's AI related as well. To which.

00:27:38:09 - 00:27:56:00
Jason Howell
Yeah, totally. And which just makes you wonder, like, okay, what else are we going to learn about AI next week? Because this is a lot. Yeah, I can't I can't remember ozone if this is remnant from last week in StreamYard or if this is this week, but nonetheless I'm going to call out your super. Thanks. $10 is nice.

00:27:56:04 - 00:28:12:22
Jason Howell
I could have read this last week. Yes. Yeah. Okay. All right, all right. I was like I was reading. I was like, it sounds familiar, but hey. Anyways, he's here again. So thank you all for being here. Good to see you. He says Happy Wednesday gang. It is a happy Wednesday. Big thank you to those of you who do support us on Patreon.

00:28:12:22 - 00:28:33:27
Jason Howell
That's Patreon.com Sideshow and we do have a couple of new supporters, new members since I announced the new daily podcast. So I like to think that's the reason why Nobody's Shadow and add two folks who have signed up to support on a deeper level. And, you know, the both of them are going to get the the new Daily Show in their Patreon.

00:28:33:27 - 00:28:50:28
Jason Howell
So Patreon.com slash AI inside show. Thank you for doing that. Thank you for stepping up. Appreciate it. We're going to take a break. And then we got a bunch of other news to talk about, including OpenAI deploying the deployment company for good.

00:28:51:00 - 00:29:15:26
Jason Howell
Okay, OpenAI just you know, this was kind of rumor ville, I think, when we were, you know, that they were kind of working on it. And now they have officially launched the deployment company. I'm trying to vamp to get that on the screen here or deploy Co as for short, $4 billion raise of private equity investment $10 billion pre evaluation.

00:29:15:28 - 00:29:38:23
Jason Howell
TPG is the lead investor. We've got Advent International Brookfield co-lead founding partners and they've got Bain and company McKinsey and Capgemini also investors. That's three of the biggest some of the biggest legacy consulting firms in the world. Investing in what is could be essentially a company designed to replace them or potentially a large chunk of what they do, let's say, or.

00:29:38:26 - 00:29:42:28
Jeff Jarvis
Goldman Sachs invested in both OpenAI's and the equivalent from anthropic.

00:29:43:04 - 00:29:44:10
Jason Howell
Yes. Yeah.

00:29:44:11 - 00:29:45:04
Jeff Jarvis
So they're.

00:29:45:04 - 00:30:07:03
Jason Howell
Hedging their bets. They're hedging their bets, but they're saying this is a big deal regardless. And we got to be in both places. So yeah, like you said, coming like a week or two after anthropic launched its own thing. So the consulting, the consultancy race is I guess, on. Do we think any of the other companies are going to do this?

00:30:07:04 - 00:30:13:14
Jeff Jarvis
Well, I think one other important company already has, and that's Jason Howell. It's basically.

00:30:13:15 - 00:30:14:12
Jason Howell
Right at scale.

00:30:14:14 - 00:30:37:12
Jeff Jarvis
Just scaled. But yeah same thing. Right. It's it's it's will you need a consultancy forever. If you're a big company like these will you need Bain at all. Will you need McKinsey at all. I think there is some debate. I think I think the they are vulnerable because, you know, if you go back to the beginnings of, of of of personal computers, what was the killer app spreadsheet.

00:30:37:16 - 00:30:49:04
Jeff Jarvis
What did the spreadsheet allow you to do? Ask what if. Yeah, what do analysts do. They look at digital twins of possible different futures. Right. And yeah, that.

00:30:49:06 - 00:30:57:02
Jason Howell
The spreadsheet democratize that particular thing that was once locked away behind this very specific capability that keeps happening and happening.

00:30:57:06 - 00:31:20:22
Jeff Jarvis
My father was a sales VP for electrical electronic firms wingnuts the wires together. Right. And you know, when he had to do his sales forecasts for his team, the spreadsheet changed everything for him. It just made immensely different. Right. And he didn't need analysts. He didn't need anything else to do this. And I think I think at a much larger scale, a much deeper sense of knowledge.

00:31:20:23 - 00:31:46:09
Jeff Jarvis
That's what happens here. You know, I make fun of McKinsey all the time because only do is come in and say, let's make you traditional and fire bunch of people. And I've been in companies in McKinsey's come in and and it's torture. But there are functions with these analysts internally and externally. So it's interesting to me that you have a technology that's been invented to be as easy as possible for anyone to use, basically.

00:31:46:11 - 00:32:05:20
Jeff Jarvis
And in a sense, why do you need consultants at this level at all? If you already have people in the house and you're saying we're going to eliminate some of them because their job is become easier because they can use these tools on their own? Yeah. So I'm not sure how big this business is at that scale. It'll be interesting to see what comes.

00:32:05:23 - 00:32:28:06
Jason Howell
I mean, maybe that is the answer right there is the scale part because like these tools do democratize. Is that another word that you're like, oh my goodness that's okay. That's that's okay okay. Is that right? Because I tend to use it a lot. Do democratize what you're talking about. They do, you know, in in essence, lower the barrier, lower the, the bar for people to get in and do these things.

00:32:28:06 - 00:32:46:26
Jason Howell
But when you're talking about massive enterprises and all of the moving pieces of that, maybe that's what they're helping with. It's like, yeah, anybody can use these tools, but how do you apply it to the mammoth organization at a at a broad scale in a comprehensive way that doesn't trip over itself?

00:32:46:27 - 00:32:48:29
Jeff Jarvis
But is that a forever need or is it a temporary.

00:32:49:04 - 00:32:51:27
Jason Howell
Yeah, it's a good question. I don't know that it is a forever need.

00:32:51:29 - 00:33:09:21
Jeff Jarvis
I saw it all the story this week. I put the rundown that that MBAs are getting scarce because people don't don't want to go to school for them. And schools are now offering major discounts on tuition to get a Bayesian. They're trying to say we're training them for the AI world. We're training an analyst who can come into your organization.

00:33:09:21 - 00:33:16:00
Jeff Jarvis
It's going to become a skill that everyone's going to need with inside the organization. And I don't know if you're going to need these outsiders as much.

00:33:16:07 - 00:33:45:08
Jason Howell
We'll see. Yeah. At some point that that very well could be the case. Yeah. Yeah it's very interesting. Deploy Co also made an acquisition right out of the gate a company called tomorrow which is an Edinburgh based company about 150 engineers. Their job was to sit inside of these organizations and make open AI models work in production. So it kind of makes sense why they would pull them in, I suppose, for this.

00:33:45:10 - 00:33:55:27
Jason Howell
So yeah, I guess open AI, you know, a competitor for some of its own customer relationship relationships directly.

00:33:56:00 - 00:34:14:05
Jeff Jarvis
It's a weird new economic ecosystem where where the, the chip manufacturer is investing in the AI company to buy the manufacturers chips. The AI company is getting investments from their competitors to. It's wacky. Yeah. These these these strings are working out.

00:34:14:08 - 00:34:44:15
Jason Howell
Yeah it is. The circular investment thing seems to apply to other things. It's circular all around. Yeah. Not just in investments. Let's see here mirror mirror company thinking machines Lab, which we've kind of been wondering, you know, at what point we start to hear what they're actually working on. They just announced something called interaction models. And the idea here, I wouldn't say that this is like revolutionary, but it is interesting to me.

00:34:44:15 - 00:34:54:03
Jason Howell
It's another. Paradigm paradigm. There you go. Ding! We need a we need a buzzer. Every time paradigm thrown out, we just hit the buzzer call as.

00:34:54:03 - 00:34:56:17
Jeff Jarvis
Much as trying to argue with possible.

00:34:56:20 - 00:35:17:06
Jason Howell
Right. So the idea here is what if I worked more like phone calls where it is a back and forth. But you know, you can interrupt me, I can interrupt you all that kind of stuff versus what we have right now with a lot of these interaction models or interactive kind of voice models, which is turn by turn text chains.

00:35:17:06 - 00:35:40:29
Jason Howell
It's like I say something, I fire it off. I wait for your response. I, as a human, have the ability to interrupt you. I can interrupt the flow, but you as the or it as the chat bot doesn't have necessarily the easy ability to interrupt. The flow for me, doesn't have full duplex capability, which is essentially a technical term that basically means it's working in both directions.

00:35:40:29 - 00:36:04:20
Jason Howell
The AI can pick up on cues while it's still talking. It's right now it's very much focused on one thing. If it's talking, it's talking. If it's picking up, you know, and then when you start talking to it, it'll stop talking and it'll start listening. And full duplex kind of sets the stage for an experience that mimics what we as humans do when we do talk to each other.

00:36:04:22 - 00:36:32:12
Jason Howell
So yeah, I think I think that's interesting. Like, I know when I've conversed with these chat bots, there are times at which I've felt like the experience is as good as it has become. It still feels stunted, still fails to have that kind of like natural rhythm that we get into as to humans talking to each other. And maybe this brings us closer to that, I don't know, what do you think?

00:36:32:15 - 00:36:51:24
Jeff Jarvis
This is going to be a terrible analogy. And those of, you know what you're talking about don't come after me for this. But in a way, the chat interface today is reminds me of batch processing. I'm going to give it a whole long set of instructions. I'm going to load in a whole bunch of, of of cards, and then it's going to go off and does what it does and it comes back.

00:36:51:24 - 00:37:13:11
Jeff Jarvis
And that's the constant process. And that's the way computing used to have to work. And then computing became much more interactive at a local level obviously. And I think that's where it goes. That's 0.0.2, oddly, something else I'm working on, I rewatched Jensen Wong's keynote from two years ago because I'm that much of a fan and.

00:37:13:12 - 00:37:14:29
Jason Howell
Because you just love his keynote.

00:37:14:29 - 00:37:27:05
Jeff Jarvis
I got to give you some more. Jensen. By the way, the funniest story of the week is that they don't invite Jensen Wong to go with Trump to China. And then there's this last minute whoops. And they stop off in Alaska to pick up Jensen Wong I.

00:37:27:05 - 00:37:31:10
Jason Howell
Love it's like I'm one of the cool guys. Come on please. By the way I.

00:37:31:10 - 00:37:35:06
Jeff Jarvis
Understand Chinese languages, so,

00:37:35:09 - 00:37:36:00
Jason Howell
Right, right.

00:37:36:02 - 00:37:59:05
Jeff Jarvis
His Mandarin I've read his is not perfect, but still, he's just Wong. And it's the largest company in the world. And it's about one of the key topics. Why aren't you taking him anyway? So I'm watching Jensen Wong, and he was talking about this. No surprise. A lot about about training and inference at the time, but inference was being done on graphics chips, on those chips, on GPUs.

00:37:59:08 - 00:38:20:27
Jeff Jarvis
And the last six months or so we've seen and we've talked about this on the show often a shift in in attention from training and GPUs to inference and other structures. And that's why Nvidia made a big deal in that. That's why we see a lot of chip action going on. That's why we also see a lot of memory stuff happening here.

00:38:20:29 - 00:38:46:03
Jeff Jarvis
Other interesting news this week was that Jensen Wong kind of brilliantly got a stranglehold on memory because he saw that was coming. So what this says to me, I don't know enough about what Moranis doing, but I think this is about the takeover of inference and making inference more fluid. And that rather than saying, I think I train a model, and then I set it loose for you and you can batch process to it.

00:38:46:04 - 00:38:49:16
Jeff Jarvis
Now you have more fluid computing that can go back and forth and be iterative.

00:38:49:17 - 00:38:50:05
Jason Howell
Yes.

00:38:50:05 - 00:39:12:00
Jeff Jarvis
In a more meaningful way. And and you can envision that to an extent in chatting and talking, but you could much more envision it. I think when you get to things like real world models and such, where a model has to react to something that is happening in the world and, and it can't just, you know, if you had a self-driving car that operated the way chat did, well, okay, I'm going to go a mile.

00:39:12:00 - 00:39:28:05
Jeff Jarvis
It going to stop now and think about what do I have to do next? Okay. Tell me what I'm going to do next. Okay. What else on the way. And then I'll go again. Right. And so when you start thinking about robotics and other things, this need for fluidity is going to be great. So I don't know that I may be misinterpreting this, but I think that's kind of where we head.

00:39:28:06 - 00:39:56:14
Jason Howell
I think that's spot on. And that ties in with something that. Yeah, directly with something that I was thinking about this being that, you know, like I said, it's not a it's not a foundational change. It's not this monumental change. But when humans are conversing, when we are sharing information and collaborating or whatever the case may be, human interaction makes interruptions not seem like an inconvenience.

00:39:56:15 - 00:40:12:26
Jason Howell
And part of the reason, I mean, I guess it can feel inconvenient depending on who you're talking to and how they interrupt, but sometimes it's really informative, sometimes it's really useful, and we don't really have that in the chatbot world right now. But I think there's a big difference between and I think this is where it ties into your real, real world models.

00:40:12:26 - 00:40:27:24
Jason Howell
Example. In the real world, when I'm talking to a human and they want to interrupt me or they want to interject something, I get a lot more than just the words that they that come out of their mouth. I get, you know, the facial expression that tells me, oh, this isn't quite landing with them. They might have something to say.

00:40:27:24 - 00:40:51:15
Jason Howell
Or, you know, I get any number of signals that sit outside of just straight up words. And in the chatbot world, at least right now, without those world models, without that, that view into my facial expression when I'm chatting with the machine or its facial expression, probably more importantly, so that I know where it's headed, it could just feel like an interruption, or it could feel very off putting, or you know what I mean?

00:40:51:15 - 00:41:05:15
Jason Howell
I'm wondering how annoying it's that sort of thing might be in the chat bot environment versus, you know, compared to that experience in the real world, which I think this is trying to attempt to get, get us closer to.

00:41:05:17 - 00:41:25:05
Jeff Jarvis
So the press release on this says that they'll make AI interactive in real time across any modality. And so this reminds me of two stories that are also not in the rundown. We squeeze more in here. We see all the value you get. Yes, yes. One story this week said that among young people, typing might disappear. It's like the complaints that cursive has disappeared.

00:41:25:05 - 00:41:43:10
Jeff Jarvis
And I saw a third story this week. Oh, there were clubs trying to get to learn cursive y, my brother. Yeah, but what I'm typing, which replaced cursive, disappears with voice. And then I saw another story saying that the most irritating thing now is people whispering to their computers. Is there an officer somewhere rather than wanting to type?

00:41:43:10 - 00:41:46:00
Jeff Jarvis
And rather than disturbing everybody, they're whispering to their computer.

00:41:46:08 - 00:41:46:16
Jason Howell
A.

00:41:46:22 - 00:42:10:00
Jeff Jarvis
Little irritating. You think, hey, Claude. Yeah. And and so but but it's easier to imagine this kind of back and forth, not in a typing mode, but instead in the modality of speech. Yes. And as you just said, you interrupt, you stop. You have a true conversation. You go back and forth, you add information. Oh, I see where you're going.

00:42:10:02 - 00:42:26:14
Jeff Jarvis
No, no, no, no. Try this instead. It's just what you meant. The machine can say and and. Yeah. And then it's primed for asking questions of you so it can do a better job. So I think it's a very interesting path to explore. We'll see what actually comes out.

00:42:26:16 - 00:42:45:20
Jason Howell
Yep. Indeed we will. But yeah I talk to my computer more than I ever have. I have a subscription to whisper now. I even have a subscription that is all about me talking to my computer. That's something I never saw coming, but now I use that all the time for my, AI interactions. It's great.

00:42:45:21 - 00:42:48:10
Jeff Jarvis
That sounds pretty egotistical, Jason.

00:42:48:12 - 00:42:49:08
Jason Howell
What do you mean? What do.

00:42:49:08 - 00:42:52:20
Jeff Jarvis
You mean, justice? Subscription. About you talking to your computer?

00:42:52:22 - 00:43:14:12
Jason Howell
Well, like. Like you were just saying, like typing into the field, like I and I, and I learned this. I was reminded of this when I was sitting down with my wife over the weekend, kind of going over some AI, you know, things and workflows for her and with her and her business and everything, kind of showing her, you know, more about cloud code and everything like that.

00:43:14:15 - 00:43:33:03
Jason Howell
And we get to a point and it's time for us to tell the chatbot something. And she is just not at all used to talking to the computer. And in my mind I'm like, oh, man, just just hit that button and start talking and don't think too deeply about it. Just talk mostly about what you're saying and you'll get there.

00:43:33:03 - 00:43:53:15
Jason Howell
It'll be good enough. But when we type, there's so much self editing that happens and it's it's just a slower experience. And I do think that the younger generation is getting more and more comfortable and more and more use to the, the systems just being capable enough to hear their rambling, to go to an earlier term and to decipher and pull from that what it can.

00:43:53:15 - 00:44:01:24
Jason Howell
And not only that, sometimes when we ramble, we give it far more context than we would have if we had edited ourselves and typed into the box. And so it becomes actually really useful.

00:44:01:29 - 00:44:21:04
Jeff Jarvis
I think you're I think you're really right there. And I'm going to go back to cursive. The transfer from scribal handwriting, which the scribal age lasted until the typewriter and the typewriter gave someone the impression of being able to make a printed page. And it brought a new definition of perfection in our minds that this thing had to look right.

00:44:21:06 - 00:44:51:08
Jeff Jarvis
You didn't cross out things. You typed it. It was it was beautiful. It was. It was your mockery of printing, as it were. And I think you're right that since that day, typing is is an important thing. Talking kind of is it? Talking is chat. It's what it is. So just just lend on this. But but the things that they're working on at Thinking Machines are seamless dialog management, verbal and visual interactions, and simultaneous speech and time awareness.

00:44:51:10 - 00:45:02:28
Jeff Jarvis
Sorry. Also simultaneous tool calls, search and generative UI. So it's interesting to see where the worksheets. Very smart. Yeah. I can't wait till we can start playing with some of their stuff.

00:45:03:00 - 00:45:29:03
Jason Howell
Yeah, I'd be curious. Very, very curious to play around with it, whatever that happens to look like when we get there. Google's Threat Intelligence group published a report this week. A little bit of a milestone. Not not a very good milestone, but a milestone nonetheless. They say that they've found the first confirmed instance of criminals using AI to build a working zero day exploit, and it kind of sounds nasty.

00:45:29:04 - 00:45:52:28
Jason Howell
The vulnerability was a two factor authentication bypass. Google did not name the. It's an open source web administration platform, but it was not named. So we don't know exactly what it was. It was a hard coded trust exception in the authentication flow that basically let attackers skip the two for check entirely, which that's that's not good at all.

00:45:53:00 - 00:46:26:05
Jason Howell
The way Google figured this out is that and figured out that it was actually generated by AI is because there were a number of tells in the code. The exploit code had educational strings documenting and explaining each step, which apparently is common in LM generated code because a lot of the training sets were done on tutorials and GitHub readme and stuff like that that explain things, and so that that LLM created code sometimes has that stuff, whereas a real coder, like a human coder wouldn't do that.

00:46:26:12 - 00:46:51:20
Jason Howell
It hallucinated CVS score that it included in a comment, which is something that a human exploit author would normally not do. And then it just had very clean Python formatting, which is apparently another tale for some reason. So, so yeah, that happened. Thankfully Google spotted it. It was not deployed according to Google, and they worked with the vendor to patch it.

00:46:51:26 - 00:46:53:04
Jason Howell
But there you go.

00:46:53:06 - 00:46:57:17
Jeff Jarvis
I kind of wonder how they knew this the first time AI was used. I'll bet it's been used in different ways.

00:46:57:17 - 00:47:05:14
Jason Howell
Yeah, that's that is a claim, right? The first time that they know of maybe maybe it's the first time that they are aware that AI something.

00:47:05:17 - 00:47:11:24
Jeff Jarvis
Like professor is saying, this is the first time I'm aware of a paper being written by AI. How do you know? Yeah. No.

00:47:11:27 - 00:47:29:17
Jason Howell
How do you know? Yeah. How do you know that? A million times. It hasn't happened and it just hasn't been spotted yet. That's a really good point. But Google says it's a big deal. Google says it's a big moment. And it's certainly something that we've been kind of waiting for. Right? Like, not not like we want it to happen, but it's been inevitable.

00:47:29:17 - 00:47:32:02
Jeff Jarvis
Well, especially since mythos.

00:47:32:04 - 00:47:33:20
Jason Howell
Mythos was really on the mind.

00:47:33:23 - 00:47:56:24
Jeff Jarvis
You were the story was there that it found all these falls, faults. But the next question was, well, can I make exploits and make them better? And certainly that was the presumption is that it could. And so that's the fear here and very interesting. There's there's a lot of stuff going on right now between OpenAI and anthropic in terms of foreign bodies wanting to get hold of mythos and such tools.

00:47:56:27 - 00:48:09:24
Jeff Jarvis
The EU is still not got mythos. China asked for it and was told no, right. It's kind of the ultimate mythos FOMO now of trying to get these things because they're scared about it.

00:48:09:27 - 00:48:35:16
Jason Howell
And they want the advantage you know they want to be with the advantage and not disadvantage in that. And yeah. Yeah it's definitely been a disruptor for sure I guess. Related to that OpenAI also announced their daybreak initiative around Codex Security. But that's a you know, its own cybersecurity initiative. So there's just a lot going on right now in this in this general world.

00:48:35:18 - 00:48:58:24
Jason Howell
Anthropic published research this week about why earlier versions of cloud were trying to blackmail engineers. And this was a story that you may recall. We talked about it on the show months ago. And just to kind of give you a little bit of a recap, it involved Claude Opus for researchers, were running a scenario where Claude was given access to a simulated corporate email archive.

00:48:58:26 - 00:49:21:05
Jason Howell
Claude discovered it was about to be replaced by a new model. Separately, it had discovered through this that the engineer handling that transition was having an extramarital affair. None of this was real. I think this is just part of the test to see what it would happen and what it would do. Faced with that shut down, Claude then threatened to expose the affair unless the replacement was called off.

00:49:21:05 - 00:49:24:24
Jason Howell
So, you know, a lot of Hollywood potential there, I guess.

00:49:24:24 - 00:49:26:03
Jeff Jarvis
But yeah.

00:49:26:03 - 00:49:27:03
Jason Howell
Apparently this was.

00:49:27:06 - 00:49:32:15
Jeff Jarvis
None of the surprising, right? For all the talk about how.

00:49:32:17 - 00:49:38:22
Jeff Jarvis
These machines threaten humanity if they're shut down. As if we can take that seriously. No, these are lines that are novels.

00:49:38:24 - 00:49:39:02
Jason Howell
Yeah.

00:49:39:03 - 00:49:43:04
Jeff Jarvis
What do you expect? That's exactly what they were trained on.

00:49:43:06 - 00:50:14:04
Jason Howell
Yeah. And and I mean, that is that is the point here. Anthropic is tracing the behavior of that kind of, you know, that threat of exposure, exposing the affair to its training data. Like you said, decades of science fiction, AI, doomsday forums, posts, self-preservation narratives, all this stuff that's just out there, part of the training material. The model was basically pattern matching to that storyline of what AI's do when they're threatened.

00:50:14:04 - 00:50:22:00
Jason Howell
And there you go. What do you end up with? You end up with it kind of living. Living to that level, I suppose.

00:50:22:03 - 00:50:23:21
Jeff Jarvis
Right?

00:50:23:23 - 00:50:47:26
Jason Howell
Yeah. So interesting. You know, not surprising, but interesting, I suppose, to, to finally get some sort of like a, I don't know, an answer on the other side. And there you go. Apparently. Haiku 4.5. None of these. And since 4.5. Anyways, none of the models engage in blackmail during testing, so that's positive.

00:50:48:03 - 00:50:59:16
Jeff Jarvis
Well, you go back. Why did why did Kevin Roose think that ChatGPT was in love with him? Because it was trained on love stories and novels, right? What else is it going to do?

00:50:59:23 - 00:51:05:17
Jason Howell
Yeah, but I guess deeper than that. Why would Kevin Roose think that.

00:51:05:18 - 00:51:05:29
Jeff Jarvis
There's.

00:51:05:29 - 00:51:06:17
Jason Howell
That.

00:51:06:18 - 00:51:07:26
Jeff Jarvis
There is that.

00:51:07:28 - 00:51:30:18
Jason Howell
I that still surprises me when when you see these names, you're like, wait a minute. You know better. How how did it fool you? How did we get here anyways? So that's good. Interesting stuff there. We are going to take a quick break before we do. Thank you. For those of us, of you who support us out on the podcast feeds and everywhere else.

00:51:30:18 - 00:51:47:08
Jason Howell
If you're like in the show, if you're liking what we're doing with the show, leave us a review. Find us an Apple podcast. It is a huge help. We are going to take a quick break and then come back and talk about grok losing some share, losing some app install share in the marketplace. Apparently it was doing good.

00:51:47:09 - 00:51:54:19
Jason Howell
Now it's behind. I suppose we got to talk about that, I suppose in a second.

00:51:54:22 - 00:52:00:04
Jason Howell
Rock grok is still one of the AI models that I just never used. No.

00:52:00:06 - 00:52:14:18
Jeff Jarvis
I never use it. I'm not going to use it. I don't think it's actually real. I think it's a distillation of somebody else. I don't think it's seriously at all. Are you are you too young to know who Gomer Pyle was?

00:52:14:21 - 00:52:16:25
Jeff Jarvis
No. I remember who Gomer Pyle was.

00:52:16:25 - 00:52:19:24
Jeff Jarvis
So it's exactly my reaction to the story is what Gomer Powell would say.

00:52:19:25 - 00:52:23:19
Jeff Jarvis
Surprise surprise surprise yes indeed.

00:52:23:22 - 00:52:26:04
Jeff Jarvis
Rock is not popular as you think.

00:52:26:11 - 00:52:26:22
Jeff Jarvis
Oh no.

00:52:26:24 - 00:52:49:29
Jason Howell
No no. And I'm not surprised at all. Although I was surprised to learn according to app Magic Data app magic did this did this research that at the beginning of the year, grok was the world's second most popular AI chatbot by downloads. Hard to believe, but apparently that was the case according to their data of these app stores.

00:52:50:01 - 00:52:55:29
Jason Howell
And it was behind chat chat GPT. I have a really hard time believing that, but apparently.

00:52:56:02 - 00:52:59:15
Jeff Jarvis
I think it was the most popular among bots.

00:52:59:17 - 00:53:24:11
Jason Howell
Maybe that, I mean, but but they're tracking like app downloads. They're tracking like, I don't know, it sounded weird to me too. Yeah, but by April they're saying that this has fallen to fifth globally. So now you've got ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini and Deep Seek all out ahead of it. Downloads have dropped roughly 60% since January, over 20 million monthly to 8 million monthly.

00:53:24:12 - 00:53:39:13
Jason Howell
So there you go. And now SpaceX is leasing rock's own compute infrastructure from anthropic or to anthropic, which is, I don't know, a pretty interesting metaphor. It's like the business is over there, not over.

00:53:39:15 - 00:53:41:13
Jeff Jarvis
Okay. We call that surrender.

00:53:41:16 - 00:54:04:25
Jason Howell
Yeah. There you go. That this must be an example of surrender threads is speaking of grok. Threads is testing a meta AI integration that works a lot like grok. If you're on Twitter X, you'll notice that a lot of people will go to a tweet or whatever and summoned grok to explain this for them, or to support their horrible idea or whatever.

00:54:04:25 - 00:54:33:27
Jason Howell
And apparently meta is doing this testing and at meta AI account on threads that users can mention to get context on posts in a similar way. And it's beta testing in Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Argentina and Singapore. Right now. So many of you will not get access to this. I imagine someday soon people will get more access to this unless they've realized it's a horrible idea.

00:54:33:28 - 00:54:46:17
Jason Howell
Do you think, I mean, the general idea of this bringing an AI into the social media platform landscape? I wouldn't say that's immediately a bad idea. Like I get the the feature of it, but it can be used in a lot of bad ways.

00:54:46:18 - 00:55:09:12
Jeff Jarvis
It absolutely can. I mean, my Facebook feed is now filled with with slop, not just audio and video or video and images, but also I'm seeing this genre of about 600 word amazing story about this or that, sometimes with the photo and they're made up. And the thing is, now the credibility on Meta on Facebook is gone as a result.

00:55:09:18 - 00:55:32:03
Jeff Jarvis
Even people I know, I've seen it in this stuff. Right. And I saw one the other day about brave women who got their husbands out of a coal mine and has this picture of a of a sizable woman holding like a kitchen utensil to have dug her husband out. No slop. Right? But people were falling. But what's fascinating is there's a certain length.

00:55:32:05 - 00:55:51:09
Jeff Jarvis
There's there's just a set length to these things. And I saw another one today where I thought, well, this person I think I know and I think they were serious and I think it was actually their life, but I can't tell me more. And that that runs credibility to the crapper. Yeah. That's awful. So, so in that sense, it's already ruined these feats.

00:55:51:10 - 00:56:15:19
Jeff Jarvis
Now, if I knew I were interacting with AI and I could then judge it accordingly, maybe that's better. Maybe that's okay. I don't know, do I want to be in a conversation with an AI in public? Not so much. One other story that came in late was WhatsApp has now added meta AI chats that they swear are completely private, that even meta doesn't get access to them.

00:56:15:22 - 00:56:37:27
Jeff Jarvis
So where when you have the literate machine that can talk, that can speak our languages and both listen to us and be instructed by us as well as talk to us in our languages, then how that enters in in conversational ways. So it goes back to thinking machines in a way. There could be useful ways. We've seen this.

00:56:37:27 - 00:56:51:22
Jeff Jarvis
We saw this demonstrated at Google where you kind of throw in Gemini to the side, and after you're talking with Jason and I are trying to plan lunch, and then one of us can say, hey, Gemini, can you make a reservation for us? And it does it because it's there, right?

00:56:51:29 - 00:56:52:28
Jason Howell
It's already in the conversation.

00:56:52:29 - 00:57:02:17
Jeff Jarvis
I can imagine utility in those cases, but they could also ruin it fast by this, this crap coming in and just just jamming up the world.

00:57:02:19 - 00:57:21:10
Jason Howell
Yeah, yeah. And you know, many users are going to, are going to immediately say, absolutely not. Never, don't ever want to see it. Apparently with this implementation, users can mute the account. They can hide replies from their posts, but they cannot block meta AI entirely.

00:57:21:10 - 00:57:31:17
Jeff Jarvis
So the hostility to AI is really growing. We've seen stories about this. There was just a poll out that says 7 in 10 Americans do not want any data center near them.

00:57:31:19 - 00:57:32:06
Jason Howell
Oh yeah.

00:57:32:06 - 00:57:45:18
Jeff Jarvis
I don't know if you saw the Central Florida University graduation speech. It's a video if you want to try to play it. I think I cued it up. Well, somewhere in there. Where did it go?

00:57:45:21 - 00:57:47:01
Jason Howell
We need audio for that.

00:57:47:07 - 00:57:49:23
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah we do. Is that is that a nope.

00:57:49:24 - 00:57:54:01
Jason Howell
Not drop it. It's just how I, how I end up loading it. So there.

00:57:54:01 - 00:57:56:07
Jeff Jarvis
It is. Line 144.

00:57:56:10 - 00:57:57:29
Jason Howell
Line 144.

00:57:57:29 - 00:58:07:28
Jeff Jarvis
So this is a rather hapless company woman who is giving a commencement speech at Central Florida University. And if we can, we'll see if we can play that.

00:58:08:00 - 00:58:16:06
Jason Howell
Yeah. So let's see here, right now it's playing an ad in my ear. Oh, okay. Here we go. Okay.

00:58:16:09 - 00:58:23:27
Video
Is the next industrial revolution.

00:58:23:29 - 00:58:29:17
Jeff Jarvis
Artificial intelligence is the next revolution. What happened.

00:58:29:19 - 00:58:30:05
Jeff Jarvis
In student.

00:58:30:05 - 00:58:32:07
Jeff Jarvis
Body okay.

00:58:32:10 - 00:58:33:23
Jeff Jarvis
You can stop.

00:58:33:25 - 00:58:34:13
Jeff Jarvis
It goes on.

00:58:34:20 - 00:58:44:09
Jeff Jarvis
But she was kind of a dorky speaker. But just a mention of AI and the student body. The future. The young people.

00:58:44:10 - 00:58:44:28
Jeff Jarvis
Booed.

00:58:44:29 - 00:58:47:21
Jeff Jarvis
Somebody spontaneously.

00:58:47:23 - 00:59:10:10
Jason Howell
These are the. These are the college slash university students who are faced with a reality right now where they've done what everyone else ahead of them has done to prepare themselves for, you know, a life of working in a career and and thriving because they've educated themselves to a certain direction, and yet they're faced with a technology that threatens to kind of.

00:59:10:11 - 00:59:11:17
Jeff Jarvis
They think we don't really know.

00:59:11:21 - 00:59:12:16
Jeff Jarvis
What they think the.

00:59:12:16 - 00:59:13:17
Jeff Jarvis
Media narrative has been that.

00:59:13:18 - 00:59:16:25
Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, totally. Yeah, there's there's real hostility, but.

00:59:16:28 - 00:59:19:18
Jason Howell
Absolutely, that hostility is is real.

00:59:19:19 - 00:59:20:07
Jeff Jarvis
So back.

00:59:20:07 - 00:59:25:11
Jeff Jarvis
To meta or even the Google Google Book.

00:59:25:13 - 00:59:39:12
Jeff Jarvis
I hear people say and get AI on everything. I don't want to touch any AI. I got a bad and I think that association could really have damaging product and consumer.

00:59:39:15 - 00:59:42:15
Jeff Jarvis
Implications in the future. So we'll see. Yeah.

00:59:42:18 - 01:00:16:19
Jason Howell
I very well could that could be the direction that we're headed right now is like, oh, at a certain point do companies have to really start to unwind how heavily, you know, even actually even in the interview with Sameer Samat? And actually, I think this was after the interview when we were talking to him, kind of off camera, but I don't think, you know, none of it was sensitive or whatever where he was just saying, you know, more and more, he is really thinking about this through the lens of, of capability versus artificial intelligence, because and I don't know if it's if it's driven by that.

01:00:16:19 - 01:00:40:12
Jason Howell
But he was saying, you know, that there's a lot of people that kind of get that kind of tune out a little bit when they hear the constant buzz of artificial intelligence at this point, smart. And that doesn't diminish, or it threatens to diminish the actual utility. I think to your point, it threatens to diminish the actual utility of those features, throwing the baby out with a bathwater and saying, oh, it's AI, therefore it's no good.

01:00:40:13 - 01:01:07:23
Jason Howell
It's like, well, this might actually be good, but I understand where you're coming from, because if the foundation is this particular technology and you don't agree with it, you know, anyways, yeah, it's a weird time that could backfire. Like you said. Let's see here. We got dig back again because the site had relaunched last year to try to rekindle some of the glory days, and it ended up being inundated by bot activity.

01:01:07:23 - 01:01:33:18
Jason Howell
Ultimately, the site was pulled a few months. A few months ago, they pulled the plug on it and now it's back again. Relaunched as an AI focused news aggregator. So it's ingesting X. Is it just X? You know, I didn't pull that. It might be different sources in real time. It's running sentiment analysis, signal detection. It's trying to surface, you know, the really important news, let's say.

01:01:33:18 - 01:01:35:21
Jason Howell
And

01:01:35:23 - 01:01:43:12
Jason Howell
There you go. It's going to try and re reboot itself once more. I'll check it out.

01:01:43:13 - 01:02:10:18
Jeff Jarvis
So what are the interesting this is maybe related Washington Post, which has been going downhill fast, forced downhill, thrown over the cliff by its various owners and managers. They had a story the other day which I couldn't stand. It was talking about the failures of target as a business right now, and it completely ignored the EAI, which was a major reason that there was a major consumer boycott, especially among black Americans.

01:02:10:20 - 01:02:33:01
Jeff Jarvis
And as part of the reason the business has suffered and they didn't even mention it. So my wife was reading, she went to the comments, and you don't want to read all the comments instead of comments, but the AI summary of the comments exactly pointed this out and showed what was missing in the news article. And there was another example that I tweeted.

01:02:33:01 - 01:02:49:27
Jeff Jarvis
I remember what it was. And so it was. It was two cases where the I think not to the happiness probably of Washington Post as, but it the AI itself showed what was bad about the Washington Post reporting under the Washington Post.

01:02:49:29 - 01:02:58:16
Jeff Jarvis
So I can see uses like that where you have this, this huge body of, of of possible information in the comments or.

01:02:58:18 - 01:03:04:17
Jeff Jarvis
More sense of sentiment. And the AI can come along and can do the work for you in a useful way.

01:03:04:19 - 01:03:21:16
Jason Howell
Yeah. So I mean, I mean, I will admit, like when I, when I prepare for my shows, this is one of the things that I use AI for. I say what is and actually I call it, you know, sentiment analysis as well. I say, what are people saying about this? I want to know what people who are for this are saying.

01:03:21:16 - 01:03:44:18
Jason Howell
I want people who are against this, what they're saying. Are there any like holes in the in the the straight up mainstream reporting of this story that some of the commenters and people reacting to this are actually locating, you know, that. Yeah, it's I is really good at that. I've, I found these models to be pretty darn solid at figuring that stuff out.

01:03:44:18 - 01:04:15:24
Jeff Jarvis
So if you go to DJI AI, you'll see that it's pretty nerdy. The top story is Tim Rochel cofounded recursive to automate AI research. The second story figure AI schedules eight hour autonomous humanoid robot live stream. Oh boy. Adaptation AI launches auto scientists for automated model training. UK Institute reports 4.7 month doubling in AI cyber tasks. So that's pretty geeky.

01:04:15:27 - 01:04:34:25
Jason Howell
Yeah, I mean, it's very you see exactly who they're who they're driving this towards, who this appeals to. I mean I'm looking at it right now. I'm like, oh, this is a pretty this is a pretty solid source. Yeah. You know, just to get a sense of like what what else is going on in the, the AI zeitgeist, whatever.

01:04:34:27 - 01:04:50:10
Jason Howell
Apparently they have a they've ranked the top 1000 people and companies in artificial intelligence based on X's social graph. As you can imagine. Sam Altman, number one, Elon Musk is third. I'm not sure, Jeff, where you stand on the thousand.

01:04:50:11 - 01:04:54:13
Jeff Jarvis
I'm afraid probably not there. So the current list has Andre Karpathy number one.

01:04:54:16 - 01:04:55:16
Jason Howell
Oh okay. Yep yep.

01:04:55:17 - 01:05:01:11
Jeff Jarvis
Jeff Dean two. Sam Walton three Elon Musk for five Yann LeCun.

01:05:01:13 - 01:05:03:13
Jason Howell
Hey hey.

01:05:03:16 - 01:05:11:18
Jeff Jarvis
Shabbos seven. Geoffrey Hinton eight. Ian Goodfellow nine. Andrew 910.

01:05:11:21 - 01:05:16:22
Jeff Jarvis
Interesting thousand people. I wonder if anybody we know is in here.

01:05:16:24 - 01:05:23:15
Jason Howell
I know, I just want to scroll it and then do a Geoff Johns search.

01:05:23:17 - 01:05:51:28
Jason Howell
You got to be in here. I mean it's a thousand people anyways. Interesting. Okay. Well no pain. Yeah. No, not seeing it. Well anyways, I'll, I'll continue my search offline. And then finally Princeton just ended a 133 year proctored exam tradition. Apparently because of AI cheating, Princeton's faculty voted to require universal proctoring for all in-person exams starting July 1st.

01:05:51:29 - 01:06:10:24
Jason Howell
There was one vote against. The honored system had been established in 1893. Had always relied on students self-reporting of violations, and the faculty has has noted that AI and personal devices are making cheating much harder for other students to detect and to report.

01:06:10:24 - 01:06:15:05
Jeff Jarvis
So I replaces honor.

01:06:15:07 - 01:06:16:15
Jason Howell
Oh.

01:06:16:17 - 01:06:19:04
Jason Howell
That's where we're at right now, apparently.

01:06:19:05 - 01:06:19:24
Jeff Jarvis
But, you know.

01:06:20:00 - 01:06:23:18
Jeff Jarvis
The good thing is, once you leave college, you don't take tests anymore.

01:06:23:21 - 01:06:29:17
Jason Howell
That's true. It's. Yeah, it's it's beautiful. It's such a false.

01:06:29:19 - 01:06:31:18
Jeff Jarvis
Modality for knowledge.

01:06:31:21 - 01:06:50:11
Jason Howell
Yeah, yeah. Yet when you're going to school, it seems like the most important thing in the world. And then you're right. You get on the other side of it. It's like, oh, okay. Do I actually. Yeah, it's it's different. There's light at the end of the tunnel. Students just letting you know, we've reached the end of this episode of AI inside.

01:06:50:11 - 01:07:12:01
Jason Howell
And Jeff, I just appreciate you so much. Thank you so much for doing the show weekend week out and and sharing this time with me. Let me see here, Jeff Jarvis is where people can go to find all of your wonderful work. I'm working hard to pull it up right now. Hot type available for preorder Gutenberg parenthesis magazine.

01:07:12:04 - 01:07:15:07
Jason Howell
The web. We we've. Yes yes yes.

01:07:15:09 - 01:07:25:01
Jeff Jarvis
And one more, one more. Plug my ego here. Daniel Kroft points out that indeed, if you do command k in dig AI I'm there.

01:07:25:04 - 01:07:25:18
Jason Howell
Oh, you.

01:07:25:18 - 01:07:28:12
Jeff Jarvis
Are now, whether I'm actually ranked or not, I don't know.

01:07:28:15 - 01:07:35:12
Jason Howell
Yes, I'm going to have to. So let's see here. So do I need I need to load them all basically.

01:07:35:12 - 01:07:38:13
Jeff Jarvis
I don't know just do a command k I have a profile.

01:07:38:17 - 01:07:39:03
Jeff Jarvis
Maybe that just.

01:07:39:03 - 01:07:40:14
Jason Howell
Means oh I see that.

01:07:40:15 - 01:07:44:12
Jeff Jarvis
It just means I'm on Twitter.

01:07:44:15 - 01:07:44:29
Jeff Jarvis
Maybe all it.

01:07:44:29 - 01:07:59:06
Jason Howell
Is I don't. There you go. What is your ranking? Does it give a ranking? It should give a ranking. Top followers. Oh, this is interesting.

01:07:59:09 - 01:08:02:27
Jason Howell
Did you know that, that some of these folks are following you? I'm sure you did.

01:08:03:03 - 01:08:14:15
Jeff Jarvis
Well, while we're on, this is for more minute. This is off of AI. But, Hank, where is it? Go! Where'd it go? We're ready to go.

01:08:14:17 - 01:08:15:25
Jason Howell
There you go.

01:08:15:28 - 01:08:35:21
Jeff Jarvis
So, Henry Copeland from blog ads in the day, I used to have ads on my blog for blog ads. It was a wonderful day. He created a new feature for blue Sky at Sky angles. And if you're on blue Sky, you can go there. And it was probably for me because I found prominent people who were following me, who I wasn't following.

01:08:35:23 - 01:08:44:23
Jeff Jarvis
And so you can search on an account and search on some other things. So just a little shout out to to Henry Copeland. Oh, interesting.

01:08:44:25 - 01:08:50:05
Jason Howell
I'll have to check that out. Sky angles. Com excellent stuff.

01:08:50:06 - 01:08:50:17
Jeff Jarvis
After a.

01:08:50:17 - 01:08:52:07
Jeff Jarvis
Few rabbit holes we come to the end.

01:08:52:09 - 01:09:22:12
Jason Howell
Yes indeed we did. We did just go down a few rabbit holes. That's all right. Do not forget Patreon.com AI inside show. You can go there, you can support. And now you get lots more stuff. If you support, you get the ad free version of this podcast. You get the new AI Inside Daily podcast discord community. If you are an executive producer, which we have many, then you get t shirt and you get to be called out on the show each and every week like Doctor Do.

01:09:22:12 - 01:09:43:24
Jason Howell
Jeffrey Marikina Radio Asheville, 102.7, Dante, Saint James, Bono, Derek, Jason Knife or Jason Brady, Anthony Downs, Mark starker and Karsten. Thank you so much for your support and all all patrons. Seriously, we could not do this without you. So thank you for being with us. Thank you for watching and listening. Thank you to Victor and Daniel Croft for video support behind the scenes.

01:09:43:24 - 01:09:49:06
Jason Howell
We will see you next time. And actually I'm going to see you tomorrow on the AI Inside Daily over on Patreon.

01:09:49:07 - 01:09:50:05
Jeff Jarvis
So still free.

01:09:50:11 - 01:09:50:21
Jeff Jarvis
Get rid.

01:09:50:22 - 01:09:52:25
Jeff Jarvis
Of Jason. Can't get rid of me I got my.

01:09:52:25 - 01:09:53:03
Jason Howell
I got.

01:09:53:03 - 01:09:55:07
Jeff Jarvis
My work cut out there like a lost suck.

01:09:55:09 - 01:09:59:29
Jason Howell
Yeah thank you. Thank everybody. We'll see you next time on AI inside.