OpenAI Sheds the Red

00:00:00:12 - 00:00:12:24
Jason Howell
This episode of the AI Inside podcast is sponsored by your 360. I get 10% off through January 2026 by using code inside.

00:00:12:26 - 00:00:46:03
Jason Howell
Coming up next, Jeff Jarvis and I unpack OpenAI's GPT 5.2 release. We've got Google's Gemini three flash launch and Nvidia's big open source push with Nemo Tron three plus, Jeff reacts to Disney's billion dollar. I deal with OpenAI and we've got a giveaway on this episode of the AI inside podcast.

00:00:46:06 - 00:01:02:04
Jason Howell
Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of the AI Inside Podcast, the show where we take a look at the AI that is layered throughout the world of technology. I am one of your hosts, Jason Howell, joined, as always by Jeff Jarvis on the other side of the country. How you doing, Jeff? All right. How are you doing?

00:01:02:04 - 00:01:30:14
Jason Howell
Good. Doing good. We've seen a lot of each other lately, and I've been doing some other, other interviews and yeah, we're we're yeah, good stuff. And we've got more interviews planned. I've got some really cool stuff. Actually, next week's episode, by the way, Little Housekeeping is not going to be a live news episode. We are going to have an interview in place of the normal newsy thing, because the episode, you know, our recording would normally fall on Christmas Eve, and even though it's not the holiday, I'm still like, you know what?

00:01:30:14 - 00:01:49:24
Jason Howell
Christmas Eve should be like a smooth on ramp to the holiday break and everything. For most people it is so. So we're going to just, air the interview, which you'll find out who that is. I guarantee you it's a really impressive. Yep. Very interesting. Definitely notable, person that we're talking with that's coming up in a week.

00:01:49:26 - 00:02:06:13
Jason Howell
And, I think the following week is going to be a day early. So we will do a news episode on the week of New Year's. It's just not going to be on New Year's Eve because we got better things to do on New Year's Eve. So we're going to do the episode a day early. So you will get a news episode.

00:02:06:13 - 00:02:25:10
Jason Howell
Then. And then I think the week after that, I'm in Vegas for CBS, so that whole order. Cameron. That's right. Oh yeah. So that, you know, that week might end up being a little strange too, depending on schedule and stuff. Because, yeah, I'll be in Las Vegas, but we'll figure that out. Yeah, that's a then problem, not a now problem.

00:02:25:12 - 00:02:48:22
Jason Howell
But, anyways, lots to talk about today. And I think maybe we start off with a little, kind of check back in on an episode you probably found in your, pod catcher. On Monday, we spoke with Nick Fox once again. I spoke with him, you know, seven months ago at Google. I o he is the SVP of Knowledge and Information.

00:02:48:22 - 00:03:08:16
Jason Howell
Basically search and AI for Google. What a grand title. What a superb title. Brother haulage information. What else would it be in charge of? You're in charge of that. You're kind of in charge of everything. I mean, you sound pretty darn smart when you're the SVP of Knowledge and Information. And he is. Yes. It was a wonderful conversation.

00:03:08:18 - 00:03:38:17
Jason Howell
If you haven't caught it, if you haven't listened to it, definitely do. There's there's even some like, news that hadn't been heard before sprinkled throughout. I wrote about it, for ZTE net. So if you search Jason Halls eating out, you'll find my article on it. But, Jeff, this is a good opportunity to kind of check back in on one of the, I'd say, the hot button topics of the podcast episode and interview with him, because you brought up the question that we had talked about many times on this show in the past, your idea of an API for news.

00:03:38:17 - 00:03:58:20
Jason Howell
So let's set the scene on this. So when I and I wrote a piece for the Nieman Lab, they do predictions right after the episode because it kind of inspired me to do it. And it's people have different interpretations of this idea. The ID my idea is very simple that, journalists have to reckon with being on AI right now.

00:03:58:20 - 00:04:25:16
Jason Howell
They're blocking and they're suing and they're lobbying and they're hiding. Meanwhile, marketers and propagandists are rushing to be there. There's not going to be a lot of wealth to be had. The big money deals, as we've discussed often, are, going to the moguls. And it's about lobbying and, legislative litigation and such. They don't really need our stuff for training, but if they did use our stuff for training, I argue that's fair use.

00:04:25:16 - 00:04:56:17
Jason Howell
As I've argued on the show, and bottom line is we need to be discovered. And if people are using AI, more and more and more news has to be there to serve the public. So what I'm arguing is that news should basically create, news organizations who should create APIs saying to AI, okay, here's our stuff. We're going to make it easy for you to get it, but let's have a discussion about the terms about the proper use of a responsible use, about, branding, about links, and, yes, maybe about payment of payments not going to be riches.

00:04:56:18 - 00:05:17:22
Jason Howell
It's probably going to if there's anything, it's going to be on a per use basis. And and not the big companies aren't going to negotiate with every little Tom, Dick and Harry and Sally who has news site, but maybe they should gang together, not to restrict themselves from AI, but instead to make it easier for AI to have that conversation.

00:05:17:24 - 00:05:38:16
Jason Howell
So I brought that up, with Nick. And and one thing about, the AI side of this is that, I know from conversations that they get scared that the news sites are all going to gang up against them, and and I'm certainly the opposite of that. I'm saying that, we've got to educate the news sites that they have to be there and figure out the right way to get them there.

00:05:38:19 - 00:05:57:08
Jason Howell
And so that's what I'm suggesting. So he was, he doesn't want Google to be in a position Nick doesn't of trying to set standards for everybody on this. I also asked him in the show, what, news producers should be doing, and it's the same answer they used to give in search. Produce a good site, do what you need to do.

00:05:57:10 - 00:06:14:20
Jason Howell
But, he seemed open to this idea of the API for news or APIs, plural for news. And it was a good conversation all around. It was really enjoyed talking to Nick. And I'm glad. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you again, Jason. Last time Jason got Nick all alone because he worked, to do it in person at this time.

00:06:14:20 - 00:06:32:05
Jason Howell
They offered to do it in person again, but, Jason generously included, be in on it. So we were at on StreamYard here. Well, because when we talked about it, you know, the way we presented that previous interview, I had talked to and recorded it at Google, I o but we still presented it in the midst of a news interview or a news episode.

00:06:32:05 - 00:06:49:27
Jason Howell
And so it was kind of like the first part of that, if I remember correctly, and you had a lot to say about it, I was like, dang, I wish you were there. Like, I think I did an okay job of this. You did. You bring you bring a long standing context, an understanding of, you know, Google's approach to search and business and the impact that has on publishers and everything.

00:06:49:27 - 00:07:05:01
Jason Howell
So when they reached out and I was like, Jeff has to be there for you, Jason, to follow his questions to his prior interview about the health of the web and and all that, because some folks are saying that the web is dying and Google saying no, that it's, it's thriving and there's more arriving. There's that word.

00:07:05:01 - 00:07:30:26
Jason Howell
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Super interesting. Nick did also mention, you know, you know, he did he did address I was, I was, happy to hear him address kind of from an empathy and empathic perspective. Or is it empathic or empathetic? I never know either. Probably both were both. Yeah. Yeah. But, from that perspective, he really did identify and acknowledge the pain that publishers are feeling.

00:07:30:28 - 00:08:00:13
Jason Howell
Right? Some of them might feel like that's cold comfort when on the other side, you know, they don't feel like they're being heard from an action, perspective. And, you know, there's only so much they can do. It's yeah, we've got to deal with the reality here. The other the other little, little highlight is that I got to, whine about workspace and you're going to really crack up with this because I took the advantage of having the man in charge of everything to say, oh, why can't I get, AI mode in my Chromebook?

00:08:00:15 - 00:08:24:19
Jason Howell
So it's really hard when I interview, people who manage and, you know, make decisions around products that I use. It's really hard for me to not fall into the trap of, you know, what would be a good idea? You know, what you guys should do? Because I know they get it all the time, and almost immediately they're like, okay, you know, they make you feel like it's the best idea in the world and that they'll consider it.

00:08:24:19 - 00:08:40:16
Jason Howell
And then it probably just goes in the dustbin of of, yeah. I was, I was set up a little bit with a, Facebook executive, and I thought it was, Oh, we want to hear what Jeff's about things. And I didn't realize it was pure PR, and I was supposed to listen to their pitch.

00:08:40:16 - 00:08:53:05
Jason Howell
And so I spent the entire time saying, I think you should do this. They should do that. He was not happy. Well, this is about words. I'm the important person in the room, right? Hey.

00:08:53:07 - 00:09:13:29
Jason Howell
Well, so if you haven't watched, the interview, definitely do do, I'm pretty proud of the piece that I put up on ZDNet. I'm learning. I'm learning how to write about all this stuff. Because, you know, it's a new skill for me. So go to Zeni that find that there. And then we should also mention Jeff, you turned your news API thing into a claymation crop.

00:09:14:00 - 00:09:35:03
Jason Howell
So there's this new thing called Storybook on on Google. If you go to Gemini Storybook Search for that. You can put in some images and you can put in prompts and it will make a storybook in claymation style, in anime style, in cartoon style. So because, APIs for news is so hard to explain to people, I chose to put it in here.

00:09:35:05 - 00:09:54:01
Jason Howell
They changed my name to Elias, which is okay, but it's of wonder where they like. How like no idea where that came from. But they. But they have these grumpy news people who are all worried, and I'm, they're holding, Legos, explaining how wonderful this is all going to be. With my clay beard. It's really a hoot.

00:09:54:03 - 00:10:13:08
Jason Howell
It's just a hoot to use it. I my son, counsels, children who are in difficult circumstances, and he's been using AI to make stories for them. I sent this to him, too, because it's funny, but when you do it on Google, by the way, it will read it to you with a high or low voice. As you choose.

00:10:13:08 - 00:10:29:22
Jason Howell
So you can also go through and read it so you can what you could do, moms and dads, is you can put yourself in the story and make yourself or your kid better yet in the story and make your kid the hero or heroine. And you get ten very fun little pages like this in about three minutes. It's a it's a kick.

00:10:29:24 - 00:10:54:08
Jason Howell
So the Council of Ink and Paper looked at each other, then looked back at Elias. Elias knew he had to be dramatic. He placed both hands firmly on the podium. Editors, look around you. The world isn't flowing in steady streams anymore. It's a volcano of information constantly erupting. And right now your newspaper is trying to catch lava in a teacup.

00:10:54:08 - 00:11:18:18
Jason Howell
Whatever the hell that means. I didn't write this. All I said was make a story on the basis of my Nieman Lab piece. This is what I came up with. It's hilarious. I love it, it's just great. So play with it, folks. It's AI. Right? Well, the great thing about this, it's perfectly legitimate in the show because it's taking Gemini and all its capabilities and then put it into a kind of an application layer that makes it very clear to people how you can use this and what I can do it.

00:11:18:18 - 00:11:39:21
Jason Howell
It's just great. Yeah. Really cool. Yep. Very interesting use and something an aspect of Gemini that I have not tested out. I've done plenty of infographics, because I just find that so neat. And in fact, we'll probably do one here in a little bit. Maybe. Maybe not. I don't know, Disney investing $1 billion into open air.

00:11:39:21 - 00:12:05:27
Jason Howell
This is just one of those things that kind of came out of nowhere like, oh wow, did not see that coming. And the plan here is to let Sora users, Sora, being OpenAI's video generation platform, does some pretty, you know, very interesting, videos with sound tied into it. You know, they have a whole social platform built around Sora now, which I've been using a lot less, I have to say, in the last couple of weeks, but just because I've been insanely busy anyways.

00:12:06:01 - 00:12:34:19
Jason Howell
OpenAI and Disney $1 billion deal, 200 licensed Disney and Pixar, and Marvel and Star Wars characters as part of this deal. And so this is going to enable Sora users to create miniature, you know, AI generated videos with those licensed characters. It does not include the rights to actors faces, to voices. So this is purely about the characters themselves.

00:12:34:22 - 00:12:58:07
Jason Howell
Although I wonder if the characters talk like the voice is an actor or actress. Like how? How is that negotiated? Right? Like, are these they just going to be silent characters? I don't, I don't know, all this could be very confusing. Yeah. It's only a year exclusivity and then Disney intends to branch it out elsewhere. And I got to believe that they're nervous.

00:12:58:09 - 00:13:18:16
Jason Howell
Disney. Yeah. Because what are people going to do with these characters? They could do some they could have, you know, Nazi Star Wars characters. Who knows? Yeah. And I mean, they've they've probably baked some serious contingencies into there. You know, people are going to be going berserk. I'll try to bring out whatever, whatever guardrails there are. They're going to jailbreak the hell out of this.

00:13:18:19 - 00:13:38:17
Jason Howell
And so I just wonder, I mean, I, I think it's I like fanfic. I, you know, I spent a lot of time arguing since the internet came along that that producers are foolish not to celebrate when people love their franchises so much that they want to extend them. I think it's I think it's a tribute and I think it's great.

00:13:38:20 - 00:14:01:10
Jason Howell
And they shouldn't be jealous of it. They shouldn't think of it as theft. And most mostly, I think most major producers and creators have gotten that message. But in this case, I wonder I wonder what's going to happen. I, I'm waiting for, I give it about six weeks. Jason, we're going to have some story here that Disney pulls back because people did, ugly things with their characters.

00:14:01:17 - 00:14:22:14
Jason Howell
Oh, wait a minute. People are going to do that? Yeah, I didn't see that coming. And if you didn't see that coming Disney, then I don't know what you. It's weird. Disney is the most protective you know copyright last 4000 years because of Disney. Yeah. And and so it's weird in a way that they were the ones to break into this as way.

00:14:22:16 - 00:14:55:00
Jason Howell
Very. Yeah. It's very interesting that it is Disney to do this. At the same time, Disney is not alone in, I think, recognizing that, you know, things of this nature are happening, whether they're on board or not. And so this, you know, I think companies like Disney are saying, okay, well then how do we not, you know, fall victim to the Napster approach and make sure that we are involved to some capacity to have some semblance of control over this?

00:14:55:02 - 00:15:10:19
Jason Howell
But then Disney saying no exclusivity. So they're saying, like, and you know what? We're going to go far and wide. Like you can expect this to be. You know, I would imagine that means that even though this is a three year deal, after one year, Disney is going to go to maybe Veo or whatever. Veo has, you know, Google has going with you.

00:15:10:23 - 00:15:36:21
Jason Howell
Meanwhile, I say that and Disney had also, hit let's see here. Oh, dang, I can't show the article. That's okay. Let me disable this. Sorry. Variety. Had also gone after Google saying, you know, this was all timed at the same time, basically telling Google, cease and desist, you have to pull down all this content that has our IP in it.

00:15:36:23 - 00:16:04:03
Jason Howell
You know, it's all timed with the deal that they made with open AI. So which which is isn't smart because the people who did that on, YouTube are fans. They do this stuff because they care about this stuff. They want to do it. And, and I think it sets up a, an exclusive commercial, kind of greedy, controlling relationship that I think is going to backfire on Disney.

00:16:04:06 - 00:16:27:20
Jason Howell
Just watch. Yeah. Interesting stuff. But yeah, I'll. Yeah, I'll be super curious to see once this rolls out has this hit. So I don't think so. Like, yeah, maybe it'll be in like in the new year or something. I didn't, I didn't really see exactly when the timing of this was going to be explicitly, but I am very curious to see like what ends up on Sora as a result of this.

00:16:27:20 - 00:16:54:01
Jason Howell
And I'm trying to think, have I seen some some of these characters on Sora already ahead of this, I feel like I've seen a lot of character stuff on Sora that I've been like, oh, really? That's like nobody's nobody knows that this is here, you know what I mean? Because people have already figured out, you know, if you allude to something but you don't specifically name it, sometimes that gets you around the guardrail, you know?

00:16:54:03 - 00:17:19:13
Jason Howell
So I think I think with Simpsons, you know, I think I would run into a guardrail because I was like, how is everybody making Simpsons videos? And if I said The Simpsons, it would hit the guardrail. But if I said longest running cartoon, you know, on on TV in history, then that kind of gets it around. It's like, I think I know what you're talking about, and it gives you something that looks very Simpsons like.

00:17:19:16 - 00:17:44:13
Jason Howell
So very interesting stuff. Well, I want to throw a huge thank you to our amazing patrons for without you, we could not do what we do here week after week. Patreon.com slash I inside show. We love doing this show. We love being able to do this show and you make it work. You make it happen. Huge thank you to Ian Smart, Ken Hayes and Chris.

00:17:44:13 - 00:18:13:25
Jason Howell
Picture picked picture picture. Just a few of our amazing patrons who support us on a monthly basis. And a little teaser to the, to the end of the show. But I decided very last minute with Jeff and pre-show, I've got a bunch of Google search schwag that's unworn, thankfully. And excellent condition. And I'm going to announce how you can get some of this swag because I think it should go to someone.

00:18:13:25 - 00:18:32:20
Jason Howell
I'm not going to wear them. It should go to you. My amazing patrons are our amazing patrons. So patreon.com slash, I inside show is where you can go for that. And stay tuned to the end of the episode. I'll, I'll detail exactly what that looks like. I'm kind of making it up on the fly as we go, so there's that.

00:18:32:23 - 00:18:57:25
Jason Howell
But I do want to take a moment and thank the sponsor of today's episode, your 360. I and yeah, super excited to have these folks on board. Jared Garelick, CEO of your 360 I he was on the AI inside YouTube channel a few weeks back to, demo a demo his product and essentially kind of show me and all of you kind of what it's all about.

00:18:57:28 - 00:19:15:26
Jason Howell
I found it super compelling. I've been, doing the review process myself, so I went through it myself. Jeff, of course, is is one of my feedback providers. Tom Merritt, Ron Richards, a few others for my kind of podcast and writing circles are helping me out with this. I'm super psyched to kind of see what happens.

00:19:15:26 - 00:19:38:15
Jason Howell
But here's the interesting thing a lack of career development is the number one reason that people quit a job, right? Most of us, however, on the other side, have never actually gotten feedback that's good enough to actually act on. And that's definitely been the case for me in my work history. Your 360 does something that was pretty unobtainable not very long ago, even six months ago.

00:19:38:15 - 00:20:03:11
Jason Howell
And that's because everything in AI is moving at such a rapid pace. And so as a result, now it is achievable. It uses voice AI to conduct real conversations with you, with your colleagues, 15 to 20 minutes each drilling in on the specifics around your performance, your wins, your growth areas, everything. And then it synthesizes all of that and walks you through the findings step by step in a coaching conversation.

00:20:03:13 - 00:20:24:13
Jason Howell
If you happen to be a manager, it surfaces patterns across your team. Some of those you may never have even recognized or noticed or have had called out in a standard survey. So very useful stuff. A PM at Dropbox called it the most helpful, actionable career advice they've ever gotten. That is high praise to start the year with real clarity.

00:20:24:20 - 00:20:49:24
Jason Howell
At your 360, I use code inside. You'll get 10% off through January. That's your 360. I make sure and use that code inside that tells them that you heard about it from this podcast. That also makes sure that you get 10% off through January or 360 I am. We really thank them for their support of the AI inside podcast.

00:20:49:24 - 00:21:06:29
Jason Howell
So good to have them on board. All right, Jeff, we're going to take a break so we can, catch our breath here for a few seconds. On the other side of the break, we're going to talk about OpenAI's code Red and how things are changing. That's coming up in a moment.

00:21:07:01 - 00:21:36:17
Jason Howell
Okay. At least I have to imagine that this is part of the whole code red thing that, OpenAI basically had to pretty big product launches, the kind that you kind of expect from OpenAI, but back to back right before the end of the holidays, right after Gemini three, which seemingly is part of the, impetus for Sam Altman's Code Red to staff the first of these products being the release of GPT 5.2.

00:21:36:19 - 00:21:58:01
Jason Howell
And I guess this is kind of interesting, because it was only a month ago that we saw GPT 5.1, and so it kind of seems like maybe the pace of their updates of pushing out these updates might be increasing. Is that a reaction to Gemini three? You know, I don't know. We'll talk about, Gemini three more in a moment, but definitely a fast follow up.

00:21:58:03 - 00:22:14:17
Jason Howell
And maybe it's a symbol of code red in action, but, there you go. I don't know, what do you think? Is this reaction area? Was this always in the plans? I mean, how companies work? I think the whole thing was to call code Red and do it in public. Yeah, as he did, was a PR move. Totally.

00:22:14:23 - 00:22:29:24
Jason Howell
Okay. Watch us next. Or, you know, we're we're we're it's it's a macho thing, right? Yeah. And then, the plan had to be within three weeks. Code red will be over. Because we got this, we got we got schedule 5 to 2 is coming out. We'll use that as the chance to say code Red's over, so.

00:22:29:24 - 00:22:37:20
Jason Howell
And media go along with it. Here we are talking about code Red. We are. And, yeah, you put it that way. And I regret.

00:22:37:22 - 00:23:01:25
Jason Howell
We're being used. I feel used, yeah. At the same time, I'm curious, like I use, I do use ChatGPT a lot. Do I use it enough to have noticed a significant difference between how I use GPT three from a 5.0 or 5.1 now to 5.2. Not in my use cases. I think people who are just using this the way most people normally do, probably not going to notice things.

00:23:01:25 - 00:23:20:04
Jason Howell
OpenAI says that you're going to notice. The difference is when you're working with, you know, agent coding, complex tool orchestration, business workflows. Those are the kind of things those are the kind of users that are going to notice big differences. But but this remains the problem with the modification. It's the leapfrogging. So we're just that much better.

00:23:20:04 - 00:23:38:23
Jason Howell
And now we're that much worse, that much better. And I think people are very I know I'm bored with these releases and I've got to believe users are and, and you kind of store it up until you have enough to make somebody say, try us again or or switch. Right. Or here's why. Instead, our benchmarks are better.

00:23:38:26 - 00:23:59:25
Jason Howell
Nobody cares. Nobody cares. It's all pretty much the same. It's all commodity. It's all pretty amazing. And, I think that this, this, model stuff will go away. You know, I'm old enough to remember when every fall there were new cars and new TV shows, and finally the whole world got bored with both. And we just kind of once in a while, you see.

00:23:59:25 - 00:24:04:02
Jason Howell
Oh, there's there's a new Ford. Okay.

00:24:04:04 - 00:24:31:06
Jason Howell
Right. Yeah. No, I, I agree, it's, you know, sometimes the, the model following and oh, this new one came out. That's why most of the time those things end up in the speed round at the end of the show. Like, how much do we really have to say about a new model that just came out? Meanwhile, I ended up putting a couple of these at the top of the fold because I thought kind of the the bigger, you know, that bigger kind of story, which is also marketing, which is this kind of code red moment.

00:24:31:06 - 00:24:50:28
Jason Howell
Also, everybody scrambling to get their big news in before the end of the year. Yeah, that too, which is always awesome. Yeah, January the 1st week of January is one week after the last week in December. But somehow it's so true. Everything has got to get in there. No, I have meetings and calls. You know, all this week, just because we got to do this before the end of the year.

00:24:51:00 - 00:25:03:20
Jason Howell
Okay. Yeah. Maybe it's just because they want to they want to be like the big thing that we've been working for is done. And I can go home and I could be with my family and not think about it, but people of this level, they aren't even thinking of those terms because they're like, no, we got to keep moving.

00:25:03:20 - 00:25:23:05
Jason Howell
You know, that was that was one thing that really was made apparent to me when I was at that, that Gemini, Friendsgiving thing like a month ago around Thanksgiving time. It was just the frenetic pace of it all, like talking to the people who are leading these teams and recognizing that, like, there really is no time to settle.

00:25:23:05 - 00:25:51:12
Jason Howell
Like the second the new thing comes out, like the the pace of the industry is such that you don't really get a chance to be like, all right, let's take a couple of weeks and just relax like, no, you need you need to follow up with a 5.2, like in a month. Okay. Yeah, I was also I was talking to one of my former, executive students, yesterday, and she was at one of the big tech companies, and was working on a fairly sizable project.

00:25:51:15 - 00:26:07:23
Jason Howell
And she said the amazing thing about it was that there were like four efforts that were the same project. And they just have so much money that they I think it probably is. Part of it is competition. Let's have a competitive force within the company. Part of it is all these resources will work the heck for us.

00:26:07:23 - 00:26:32:12
Jason Howell
We better than one. And, that's the other thing about these places. They they just they they there's no constraint on resources. So you've got to keep making everything as fast as possible. Yeah. Faster, faster. Yep. More. So what else did OpenAI say? Speaking of more, maybe this is a little more interesting because this happens. These kind of upgrades happen less, at least as far as OpenAI is concerned.

00:26:32:12 - 00:27:05:17
Jason Howell
But they also unveiled, image model 1.5. And so an upgrade to OpenAI's capabilities around generating images. I think clearly this is, you know, really aimed at, oh my goodness, nano Banana Pro is an elephant in the room that that is really sucking all the oxygen out because it's damn good by the way. Yep. And so they want to position this is better in all the same ways, you know, faster, better control, improved text rendering.

00:27:05:17 - 00:27:25:29
Jason Howell
That's a big part. Now they're all kind of finally getting good at this. They say four times faster than the previous model. I played around with it, and it may be faster, but I wouldn't say it's Gemini fast, As far as that's concerned, I wanted to, like, just because we've got a show and because I like show and tell.

00:27:26:01 - 00:27:43:10
Jason Howell
Kind of put a single prompt through both of these and see how they do. So why don't we do it? So I've got Gemini open, I've got Nano Banana Pro. Turn this article text into an infographic image because I love playing around with the infographics. This is a, this is just a random post I found on the AI Break substack.com there.

00:27:43:10 - 00:28:00:18
Jason Howell
You got a magical plug tutorial ten notebook LM use cases that will tell you your productivity. Okay, so I'm going to fire this off in you're doing the fast version and I'm doing the fast, which we're going to talk about in a second. And then I'm going to fire it off in ChatGPT and kind of see what it comes back with.

00:28:00:21 - 00:28:34:21
Jason Howell
Generally Gemini, I mean, that was really fast. Gemini came back in like 10s maybe, maybe that, and, you know, you got your solid text rendering, you got your, you know, it's all the different points. One, two, three. Let's see if it makes sense here. 12335466. Ten okay. So not all of them are numeric brain Brom okay.

00:28:34:21 - 00:28:52:13
Jason Howell
Just it's 12. But be that as it May 10th. Yeah. Use cases. It is 12 of them here here. Here's what I want to try. Now I'm going to go ahead and do a new one. And I'm not going to do fast because I think when I tested this initially I wasn't testing with fast. I think I was just testing with Pro.

00:28:52:13 - 00:29:08:29
Jason Howell
So we'll go ahead and fire that off. Let's go. Okay. So ChatGPT did not, do what I wanted it to do. It gave me a description. Okay, here is a ready to use, no, no, create this image.

00:29:09:01 - 00:29:28:03
Jason Howell
Sometimes it needs that explicit instruction I've noticed. Otherwise it's like yeah, here's what I do. If I create an image, it's like, yeah, just do that. That's all I want you to do. Nano Banana Pro this is probably the most exciting audio podcast ever. Listen, we're just there with the ball go around. Yeah, exactly. So this is so this is with Gemini.

00:29:28:03 - 00:29:56:29
Jason Howell
Three things not numbered this time. One, 2345, six. That's actually ten use cases. Writing and font. You know, consistency and everything. Look yeah the the diagrams are better. Yeah. Yeah. There's no there's no made up I alien words here so that's good going over to OpenAI still working. So from a speed perspective definitely a little slower. And I like this derpy aspect of the show.

00:29:56:29 - 00:30:18:13
Jason Howell
This is good. Sometimes demos like this work and sometimes I've I've, I regret it afterwards or I'm like, oh, that was that was only really interesting if you're actually watching it. Sorry for the audio podcast listeners, while this is working, why don't we talk about the other thing and then we'll check back in on ChatGPT, because this is an indication of how slow the image.

00:30:18:15 - 00:30:42:15
Jason Howell
Model is for ChatGPT. But we do also have Google announcing this morning the release of Gemini three flash, which is, you know, as I kind of showed off very briefly earlier, it's, you know, it's it's faster model. Essentially, they say it's a solid match or beats a 2.5 Pro on multimodal reasoning coding tool use runs up to three times faster.

00:30:42:15 - 00:31:02:09
Jason Howell
It is very fast, I have to say. And yeah, it's basically the default that you're going to find in AI mode, in the Gemini app and all that kind of stuff. I actually let me see if I could pull this up. I one shotted the AI inside website. Are you ready? If you're watching video again here you go.

00:31:02:13 - 00:31:27:29
Jason Howell
Looks absolutely nothing like our site. But it did. And and it also, by the way, it did not get our images correct. It got our name. But these are definitely not us. But it it turn this around in 10s. This this was made in seconds coded. Wow. Which is pretty inside the evolution blue. I know I shot looks of intelligence of it and tell it.

00:31:27:29 - 00:31:52:26
Jason Howell
Do I need to change? You know, how do we market this podcast? I mean, this is a sharp look. And so this pretty much site, you know, a little bit of, a little dystopia to it. But yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of it. I kind of, you know, imagery and stuff is dystopian and, and, steampunk. So anyways, for what it's worth, 10s inside of Gemini three flash and it created an interactive site.

00:31:52:26 - 00:32:15:12
Jason Howell
I wonder if, like, some of these other tabs actually take me to places, or if it's just the landing page, looks like it's probably just the landing page right now, but looks nice. Okay, let's check back in on the infographic. And we do have something from ChatGPT. We have slide nine instead of ten. Okay. 123456789. Yeah. You're right.

00:32:15:15 - 00:32:39:06
Jason Howell
What did they did they just decide the 10th one wasn't important? I guess. So, turn stored knowledge into actionable work. Your second brain, your study coach, your research engine. I mean, I'm looking over this for text that seems misspelled or alien and everything. Everything looks so. They've all gotten so much better at producing. I mean, yeah, not just text that's readable, but but but credible.

00:32:39:08 - 00:33:04:05
Jason Howell
Yeah. Big time, sensible, I guess I should say. So they can both pass the, the infographic, challenge. But I think you notice, you know, one one was clearly much faster than the other, if that matters to you. So there we go. We made it through the show. Two levels of. So, yeah, they didn't crash and burn like I kind of expected them to, so that's good.

00:33:04:07 - 00:33:29:18
Jason Howell
Nvidia, we have kind of leaning into open, in the world of AI in two different ways. First of all, they are let's see here, they have big acquisition with Scad. MD have you heard of Scott? I have not heard of them, no, but I wish I had heard of the brand they make. They make a, open source workload management system called Slurm.

00:33:29:25 - 00:33:55:16
Jason Howell
Slurm. What a great name. Yeah, it's a good name. It's a good name system. Much rate. The program, which is designed for high performance computing and AI, is an open source, vendor neutral software. Yes. So, this is one thing that's important that this acquisition means that they're they're standing behind open source. Which is great.

00:33:55:16 - 00:34:24:12
Jason Howell
And the second thing they did was that they released, Nemo. Tron was another good, brand Nemo Tron three nano, a small model for targeted tasks. The Nemo Tron three super, a model built for multi-agent applications, and Nemo Tron three ultra built for more complicated tasks. And these are all open source models and keep fascinating. The Nvidia is in the chip business.

00:34:24:12 - 00:34:50:07
Jason Howell
Obviously it's in the hosting business and it's in the software business. Certainly Cuda is is critical here. And some would criticize it for the dependance some have on Cuda, but also they're putting out open source models. And and I think it's a really important, endorsement of open source. And it's a fascinating wing spreading by Nvidia.

00:34:50:09 - 00:35:10:25
Jason Howell
Yeah. And I mean, it was just a month ago that Jensen Huang was speaking at Nvidia GTC. And you know, one of the things that he, he mentioned, was that one of his sprawling hours long, presentations like never. But he said researchers need open source developers need open source companies around the world. We need open source.

00:35:10:25 - 00:35:33:26
Jason Howell
And so it seems like some of, you know, these two announcements in particular are really kind of delivering it. It's Nvidia delivering on that stated need that Jensen Huang announced. Then Slurm, like Slurm and Scott, MD, I had not really heard of them. Maybe I've like, come across the name here or there, but, no deep knowledge of them from working standpoint.

00:35:33:26 - 00:35:58:08
Jason Howell
But when I kind of looked into it a little bit, Slurm has a solid reputation in the community around its, open source approach. Basically, you know, it's it's a lot of trust because of the openness that means that the industry, large labs, clouds, that sort of stuff can adopt that without any threat of being locked in.

00:35:58:08 - 00:36:22:20
Jason Howell
And so, yeah, so solid that that Nvidia is keeping it that way. I can't help but always say keeping it that way dot dot dot for now. But yeah like a lot better is rumored to be doing. But I think Jason Wong believes in this and he's got to. Yeah, I think so too. He, he has to have a hope for the largest possible market.

00:36:22:22 - 00:36:39:25
Jason Howell
So I think he, he doesn't want a market where he's limited to 2 or 3 customers because they can switch on them and it can be brutal. What happens? Yeah. And Google's out there breathing down their neck with chips and so on and so forth. So. And yeah, because Nvidia's M.O. is all about partnerships is all about widespread.

00:36:39:25 - 00:37:02:26
Jason Howell
Everybody uses what we have, relies on what we have. You know? Yeah, if that makes sense to me. Why do we have wired magazine so that the models are among the best that can be downloaded, modified, and run on one's own hardware? Yeah. Okay. Open innovation is the foundation of AI progress, said Jensen Huang.

00:37:02:28 - 00:37:20:19
Jason Howell
So. Well, that is good. Thank you. Thank you for the open source stuff. You know, one thing I've got to do, I haven't done it yet. I've got to because I have really old machines. The Mac I have is about 15 years old. And I'm otherwise a Chromebox. But I want to get more experience with downloading a model.

00:37:20:19 - 00:37:40:19
Jason Howell
Any model and just getting to running. It's lovely. Yeah. Because you know, you go way back in the day when I started teaching journalism school, we taught students to, to download WordPress and, install a server instance of WordPress to create their blog. Wow. We had to go through all of that, and I had to learn how to do it, to teach it.

00:37:40:21 - 00:37:56:07
Jason Howell
And I haven't done that for so long because everything is just kind of so automated. And if if we're going to believe in open source, that it also means what can you do with this stuff on your own? Yeah, totally. Well, and yeah, depending on on the kind of work you're doing and everything, it can be really expensive to be doing this stuff in the cloud.

00:37:56:11 - 00:38:18:18
Jason Howell
Yeah. And and the answer to everybody's concerns about privacy and data usage and all that is more localized. Absolutely, absolutely. You need to get one of those AI pieces that we talked about however many months ago. You can't tell things. Well now I'm waiting for it now there's a lot of talk about the new the next Chromebook will be the combination of Chrome and Android.

00:38:18:21 - 00:38:50:27
Jason Howell
So I'm waiting for that with bated breath as I'm sure you are, doctor. Android. Yes, indeed. I'm very curious about that myself. Got to talk real quick about the US, President Trump's executive order to strip states of their ability or authority to regulate and control AI development. He is moving with this executive order to centralize power into a single federal national framework.

00:38:50:29 - 00:39:12:04
Jason Howell
And of course, big Tech loves this, because they say it's going to shield the technology that they're working on that they're creating from being impacted, from being slowed down, by what they say is a patchwork of state rules that they had to abide by. So much panic, many headlines about this, what's California going to do with its legislation?

00:39:12:06 - 00:39:36:17
Jason Howell
Of course. God bless. Mike mastic. Tech Dirt, who comes along and points out on a recording here, executive orders aren't laws. They're memos, fancy official memos that tell federal employees how to do their jobs. But memos nonetheless. You want to change what states can and can't do. You need this little thing called Congress to pass this other little thing called legislation of making.

00:39:36:19 - 00:40:00:20
Jason Howell
Trump can't just declare state laws invalid any more than he can declare himself emperor of laws, though who knows that can come. Yes. But Musk will be there first. So, yeah, he's trying to do this, but unless there is over, arching federal legislation, it will mean a thing. So I think what we're going to see is we're going to see states rushing in here.

00:40:00:23 - 00:40:27:06
Jason Howell
California is rushing ahead with some legislation by some discussion. I think others will as well. To beat the feds to it and then see what happens from there. I love Matt's work. Yeah. Let's, let's also give him a plug. He right now has a fundraiser that if you give more than $100 to Tech Dirt and and please support it, you will get a, there if you scroll down effects there a yeah.

00:40:27:07 - 00:40:51:24
Jason Howell
On the on the on the far right support tech. You'll get a section 230 coin, marking 30 years of section 230 which Mike master conductor to have been among its best, most important protectors. So here's to Mike. I'll have tech dirt on my year end contributions. Yeah. No, they're fantastic. And he's just a really nice guy to each.

00:40:52:02 - 00:41:07:13
Jason Howell
I enjoy talking with him, too. He truly is. Yeah, yeah. And a very busy guy. Yeah I know I totally you know, and he's got his podcast on top of the site. And you know, when you read his pieces, it isn't just like a tiny little piece that he threw together, like it's he's it's so well thought out.

00:41:07:15 - 00:41:26:02
Jason Howell
Yeah. He's solid. He's awesome. Let's see here. One of the I realize I didn't kind of write it into the official thing, but you, you came across a paper, in kind of like a mini archive showdown of one paper. I think maybe, maybe 1 or 2 in here. Anyways, what what do you got here? What about.

00:41:26:02 - 00:41:51:11
Jason Howell
So this this kind of comes off the the Disney discussion earlier because it was fascinating. There were, there was a paper that, wanted to make a conversational living novel and the reason they did this for research purposes was not to make the novel. It was to worry about, the, the kind of persona drift, they call it that, that, that I won't hold lemons, won't hold on to the same persona.

00:41:51:14 - 00:42:13:08
Jason Howell
So they wanted to use a novel and see if it could stick with the persona. The characters Nemo in 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, they did that. It occurs to me that that's why they did it. But the idea of conversational, novels that if you could take any novel out there and then start conversing with it, imagine for the whole romance world, but imagine lots of classics.

00:42:13:08 - 00:42:44:03
Jason Howell
This becomes an interesting, educational tool and interesting and entertainment thing. I'm sure some will decry it as as ruining the bastardization. Yes, yes, yes, let's say the invention of the word. So this week, if you go to my socials, you'll see that I highlighted five, papers. One is also related is one from, DeepMind where they took, Romeo and Juliet and basically created digital twins and said, well, what if they do the suicide scene?

00:42:44:04 - 00:43:11:03
Jason Howell
And it turned out differently. And the same concept is what they're trying to do here is they're trying to break down the idea of story into game theory. So one could say this ruined Shakespeare, by technology izing him. But it's interesting to see the connection here of AI and art and, yeah, it could be good, it could be bad, but I but I'm really loving this kind of experimentation, so I wanted to mention those.

00:43:11:05 - 00:43:29:15
Jason Howell
And then if you go to why, it's like, it's like fanfiction driven by AI or and opens up the opportunity for interaction. What if this had happened? Yeah. Well, I'm fascinated, as I've said on the show often about digital twins, and I think digital twins for factories and cars and warehouses is one thing. But what about digital twins for your life?

00:43:29:15 - 00:43:47:19
Jason Howell
So if you look at my feed, you'll find another one about how students, worked on trying to talk to themselves in 30 years, after they did different things. And you'll find another one in which the psychiatrist put AI on the couch and found that it's pretty crazy. But you can read those on your own.

00:43:47:21 - 00:44:11:12
Jason Howell
The AI is is pretty crazy sitting on the couch. Boy, I never would have imagined Jeff. I never would have guessed that they they think they have troubled childhoods. It's so they have a full on back story. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Fascinating. Love it. Well, you know what? This really was deserving of the fame, so I don't know why I didn't play it.

00:44:11:15 - 00:44:34:28
Jason Howell
I slowed down primarily because it was tucked away in a different area of StreamYard. Sometimes it's made. Yeah. And everything else I'm doing, but we got it in there at least once. And really, we only need to listen to that song once an episode at most. Yeah, I just, I backsliders, you know. Yeah. Well, now, real quick, if you enjoy this show on, you know, on a regular basis.

00:44:34:28 - 00:45:00:02
Jason Howell
Also the interviews that we're doing, everything that we're doing, it's all an opportunity for you to go onto your podcast, your of choice, be it Apple Podcasts or wherever else you can leave a review. But I think primarily Apple Podcasts is the is the real big one. If you haven't left a review this show, if you've enjoyed the interviews we've been doing and the extra work that we've been throwing into this, please, just at the very least, go and leave a review and Apple Podcasts.

00:45:00:08 - 00:45:17:26
Jason Howell
It elevates the visibility of the show. It confirms when someone hits that, they're like, oh, I heard about this show, you know, because they come across an interview and they go on Apple Podcasts and then they see 30 reviews and they're like, okay, I want to I want to subscribe. Huge help to the show. So, visit us on Apple Podcasts and leave a review.

00:45:18:02 - 00:45:32:07
Jason Howell
It's, pretty easy to do. It doesn't have to be very long, but we appreciate, if you do that, I'm going to take a quick break. Then we got a little speed round, and most of it is Google. There's a lot of Google on today's episode. So Michael been busy been busy getting it all in before the holiday.

00:45:32:07 - 00:45:36:14
Jason Howell
That's coming up here in a moment.

00:45:36:17 - 00:46:00:26
Jason Howell
We don't have to start with Google necessarily. We can start with cursor. You had actually put this into your rundown and cursor, you know, in the in the vibe coding world kind of a big deal. Yeah. And, and cursor has a new visual editor that they've announced and released some new capabilities dragging, resizing, restyling of live app components inside of the browser.

00:46:01:02 - 00:46:18:12
Jason Howell
Let's see here. Can I make this larger? There we go. Now we can actually show it if you're watching the video version although oh it's just a one second video. Anyways, if you go to if you go to the video, the two, people from cursor. Yeah. And fast forward a little bit, they'll show you what they're doing.

00:46:18:18 - 00:46:39:04
Jason Howell
So you, you said so there's, there's a bunch of headlines on a website there. And he just gives the instruction to center them. And so it does what it needs to do in the layout and the coding to bring it in and center it and do what he's asking for. So it's it's a it's a they're showing this in terms of web development, web page development.

00:46:39:04 - 00:46:59:25
Jason Howell
But it's also obviously this is a way to illustrate what you could do with programing in other ways where you and not just not just typing instructions, not just interacting with a point and click and blah, blah blah, but just using your voice to direct everything in real time, kind of. Yeah. So it's pretty it's pretty amazing. So it's this is this is vibe developing?

00:46:59:28 - 00:47:24:10
Jason Howell
Yeah. Wow. This is, this is the extension of, Wysiwyg, right? Yeah, yeah. Once upon a time there was Wysiwyg. And and speaking of bastardization, Wysiwyg was a, a bastardization of coding back in the day when, you know, it was like, no, I'm a real HTML coder. Why wouldn't use Wysiwyg tools? And so there's, there's, there's an argument to say that I was there when was he wig was invented.

00:47:24:12 - 00:47:52:16
Jason Howell
Oh, really? I was at the civil. I write about this in my upcoming book, Hard type, at the Sebald Seminars, which was a, media production, consultancy and seminar, things like PostScript would be talked about there and, and new systems and the early days of producing newspapers, magazines. You had mono spaced screens, you just had the text, and then at some point you get H and J, so you can find out how long it was.

00:47:52:18 - 00:48:17:05
Jason Howell
And then at some point the Holy Grail was, can this look on my screen like it's going to look in print, right. And before PostScript, there's a lot of work that went into this. And, I was at one of the Siebel seminars where John Siebel, the senior of the several times. So making notes and, and, Flip Wilson's Geraldine was a major, character then on, Laugh-In, as I remember.

00:48:17:08 - 00:48:32:16
Jason Howell
And, I think it was a Swedish company was showing off that we're going to make it look exactly, on the screen, as you see in paper. And so John Siebel wrote down, what you see is what you get. And his son Jonathan went up to the whiteboard, or chalkboard, whatever was at the time. And wrote down and underlined it.

00:48:32:16 - 00:48:53:13
Jason Howell
And it was wizzy wig. Yeah. And it wow. There's there's an argument to say that that was the first I was used. You never want to claim first time. You never want to claim provenance because somebody else will find other things. But it was an early point and this was this was leading up to and I also told the story of postscript because it was really postscript that enables true Wysiwyg to come.

00:48:53:15 - 00:49:13:12
Jason Howell
Yeah. And it's what enabled so much about the Mac and all those things and all these production things and how I managed to publish Entertainment Weekly on Macintoshes, which I helped with with the brilliance of my wife. And so happens. So Wizzy wig has history. Wow. That's cool. That's a story I have not heard before. That is.

00:49:13:12 - 00:49:34:07
Jason Howell
That is awesome. I love it, and, I'm sure that the ozone nightmare appreciates this too. Ask for the super. Thanks. Ozone nightmares. Great shows always fellas. Hope you have a fantastic holiday. Looking forward to seeing you and hopefully speaking to you both next year. Yes indeed. Every once in a while we run into you Joe. Thanks, gents.

00:49:34:07 - 00:49:54:06
Jason Howell
Yeah, maybe you'll be on a book tour, Jeff. And you'll come to the Bay area and we'll get everyone. It'll be a reunion. Thank you. Thank you, Joe. Appreciate you. What else do we have here? We have? Oh, yeah. Disco, this is kind of interesting. This isn't a browser, but it is something that works with the browser that you're using.

00:49:54:06 - 00:50:19:03
Jason Howell
This is, a Google Labs experiment, that you can check out. Let me mute it because it's too loud in my I can't I'm not hearing it here. No, that's okay. I don't want you to hear it, but I don't want it to play in my ears so that I hear it. It's basically it turns your open browser into a custom interactive gene tabs, apps environment.

00:50:19:05 - 00:50:41:07
Jason Howell
So I think if I understand this correctly, if you're in a browser and you're on a site, you can turn that site into an interactive app using disco. So it's not a static web page. It becomes interactive and you can kind of collaborate or do whatever with it. It uses the page that you have open in your browser to auto generate a workspace around it.

00:50:41:10 - 00:51:00:23
Jason Howell
That's really interesting. Like I think it's really and then I think it will also create, a bunch of tabs. It will then take that and create tabs as a result, which you can then navigate. And I immediately applied to get to the hello Google. If anybody's watching, let us in. Let us in. Knock Knock-knock. Because it looks like it's fascinating to play with here.

00:51:00:26 - 00:51:21:11
Jason Howell
Yeah. Love it. That's a that's a really unique I think we really I think we're, I think we're about on the edge of a huge, paradigm shift. When I worked at one company, if you use the word paradigm, you had to put $5 in a jar. A paradigm shift in terms of what we thought of as user interface and navigation.

00:51:21:14 - 00:51:46:09
Jason Howell
Yeah. And I think that, this is all going to come together with AI, and it's going to change how we interact with information and functionality, just fundamentally, I think so, I think so, and just how adept these systems are getting in the visual sense. Yep. You know, even this last year has just been huge. Even Gemini three, Gemini three has been huge for the visual capabilities of AI.

00:51:46:09 - 00:52:08:26
Jason Howell
And all that tells me is that they're all they're all, you know, they're all working about to release their versions of that as well. So we're going to suddenly see this, you know, explode on a deeper level and, get integrated and everything that you're seeing here. So, yeah, Jason, if you wouldn't mind transposing the next two stories, I think the Google map story is related.

00:52:08:29 - 00:52:39:11
Jason Howell
So yeah, yeah, Google maps, fully baking in conversational Gemini into the maps experience. So, you know, your hands free, you're driving, you can do all the things. Ask about nearby stops local recommendations, parking route changes, do controls over your system like control, music, syntax, report, road issues, all that stuff with your voice just while you're driving. Which I mean, maps had assistant before, but it was very intentional and specific, right?

00:52:39:16 - 00:53:00:11
Jason Howell
Yeah, and often pretty dumb. Now it's one. And the other thing about it, it's also reverse as well. I go into Gemini and I ask, give me bookstores near me and it pulls in maps. And does a nice. So rather than having to go to maps and say for the bookstores I got this whole list, blah blah blah blah blah, it's much more fluid in how it uses both.

00:53:00:14 - 00:53:22:22
Jason Howell
Right. And so within Gemini I'm getting to maps without specifically going to maps. Which is interesting to getting the benefit of it. The Google's bringing all the stuff together and, if they keep this going, there'll be a code red. That a code purple over it. Open. You know, Google Google could be a big deal someday.

00:53:22:24 - 00:53:41:28
Jason Howell
Google. It could be. This could be the next Google, you know. Yeah, Google could be the next Google. And then finally in this Google, trifecta, I think at least here. Anyways, I, you know, we talked about a lot more than just here, but Google Translate has a bunch of new features. I think the one that stands out for me is that, voice translation using Pixel Buds.

00:53:41:28 - 00:53:58:11
Jason Howell
It used to be isolated to just Pixel Buds, which made you think Pixel Buds were special. They had something going on inside that hardware that made it possible, you know, tensor hardware or whatever. Now Google has said, now you know what? We're bringing it to all headphones. So if you have a pair of headphones, you have the Google Translate app.

00:53:58:15 - 00:54:24:24
Jason Howell
You can use your headphones to do it. And vice translation is it just Android? Yeah, I think it's just like a must be. Yeah. So there you go. You can you can do this. I feel we were talking about this a little bit on on Android Faithful last night. As interesting of a feature as this is, and as much as it constantly gets like, oh, wow, you can you can do this now.

00:54:24:24 - 00:54:47:19
Jason Howell
Like it feels kind of futuristic to be able to put in headphones and hear the translation of the person in front of you. I really wonder how many people are actually doing this, because it's just a how many times do you find yourself in a situation where the opportunity presents itself to do that and be because it rarely happens, at least is the case in my life and probably everyone that I know.

00:54:47:21 - 00:55:09:01
Jason Howell
You're far less likely to recognize or be kind of rehearsed enough to do it effectively when suddenly there you are, standing across from someone who you could benefit from something like this and see you both have to have it in your ears to do it. There's a lot of set up for this really cool feature. It's neat that we can do that.

00:55:09:01 - 00:55:44:15
Jason Howell
And I'm not I'm not saying it shouldn't exist or anything, I'm just curious like how much it actually gets used. So there was a, I have a use case and I think I mentioned this when I got back from, Munich, about six weeks ago, I went to the, Union median target Munich media days, and there was a company called Video Taxi that was, doing live transcription of every talk at the conference and translated into three languages, so I could sit there with my phone and read really?

00:55:44:15 - 00:56:12:11
Jason Howell
Right on time to what was being said on stage after each. Then I went to, the Tyrol, a few weeks later, and in Austria and most of the conference in German, my German is very bad light of mine, Deutsche Searchlight and I I was looking to be able to find things like video taxi costs $1,000 for a small conference, and I obviously I was the only English speaker there, and they were going to do it for me.

00:56:12:11 - 00:56:35:26
Jason Howell
And I can speak some German. So, you know, I'm struggling along and if I can, I surely find some app that will do this. And I wonder whether I could have just used my Pixel Buds at the time. Yeah, I can see sitting in and rather than conversationally sitting in an event or or you're right, or you're in an airport and or the airplane or they're making announcements that are the language thought a braves English.

00:56:35:29 - 00:57:04:24
Jason Howell
But but, you know, I could see those kinds of cases where just listening, if you could get simultaneous translation, that would be great. Yeah. Situation like that. I could totally see that. Throw it in. You know, you you kind of also have to know that like there's going to be enough of that language coming in at you to, to support you going through the trouble of like pulling out the thing and launching the app and doing the mode and everything like that.

00:57:04:24 - 00:57:20:15
Jason Howell
Because if it's going to be a short burst, you're going to miss it by the time you know what I mean. It's not immediate. So there is a little bit of setup. There is a little bit of comfort that you need to have as a user kicking into this mode kind of muscle memory in order to, to, to really, capitalize on that feature.

00:57:20:17 - 00:57:41:01
Jason Howell
Like, I can, kind of related to this when I was out of Google a couple of weeks ago, testing those Astra glasses. You know, part of that experience was a live translation demo where there was a woman standing right in front of me speaking. I think she was speaking Spanish, and, can't remember Spanish or Portuguese.

00:57:41:03 - 00:57:58:26
Jason Howell
I can't remember off the top of my head. But the point is, the glasses were in real time, translating into English into an audio or just an audio audio. Right. And actually you could see it also in text, you could turn that off. But kind of the, you know, big part of the demo was like, isn't it cool?

00:57:58:26 - 00:58:21:15
Jason Howell
There's person standing in front of you talking in Spanish, or Portuguese can't remember. And what you're hearing out of the speaker that is right above your ear is the English translation in in near real time. The the real complicated thing that I ran into is it's really hard to separate the reality of those two things happening simultaneously.

00:58:21:15 - 00:58:56:13
Jason Howell
I'm still hearing her. I'm hearing this loudly, but I'm also still hearing her. And it was it was a cognitive load for me to really, really is. Yeah. So I've done, talks, where there's simultaneous translation and, I've done it in auditoriums where it's not so bad, people are listening and you can kind of hear this faint in the background, but I've also done it where a bunch of Japanese, executives came to my journalism school and they had a simultaneous translation there who was doing it into a, little muffled thing.

00:58:56:15 - 00:59:17:18
Jason Howell
But as I'm talking, he's translating me. That's weird too. It's weird on both sides. Sort of wrote to say. Yeah. Translated in the translate horror. Side. And you and you would hear his translation of you while you were talking. Yeah. Even though obviously. Oh, God. Not what it meant. That would. That's right. Right. Yeah. There's it be really hard.

00:59:17:20 - 00:59:42:02
Jason Howell
My wife teaches English as a second language right now. She has a class of people who speak Japanese and Arabic and Spanish. And, there's two Japanese students and when one can't understand something, the other will go to the app for them and and figure it out and help each other. Is fascinating to watch. And I think that's an application we saw at I o the demonstration of, of, Google Meet or Zoom with translation.

00:59:42:02 - 00:59:59:28
Jason Howell
I think that makes a lot of sense. I that you could then change the, the sound levels and such. Yeah, yeah. If it's simultaneous and the other was, you know, I'm part of the World Trade Center health program. And the last time I went to see the doctor there I was in Bellevue Hospital, which in New York means every they deal with every language possible.

01:00:00:00 - 01:00:18:06
Jason Howell
And there's a special phone in every doctor's office that you can pick up to get a translator. So you can imagine in that case if I'm coming into a doctor's office or I'm in the hospital and I speak a different language, or if I were in a different country, if I could use that in that case, yeah, it could be really important.

01:00:18:09 - 01:00:42:12
Jason Howell
So I think on a day to day, you're going to buy a croissant in Paris, you learn how to say, plus all. Yeah. Oh, cool. So yeah. And that's it, right. Right. And and and I think, you know, we're so privileged in English. Yeah. It's a tremendously privileged in English. It's it's always the story I like to tell.

01:00:42:12 - 01:01:01:05
Jason Howell
I'm first of we went to Sweden. I went through my Berlitz book on the way over going, I'm trying to be a good not ugly American. I'm trying to learn. My wife and I walked into the restaurant the first night and I say, it's full, and I put up two fingers. To be clear, if I wasn't clear, like two people for dinner, the person speaks back to me in Swedish for a while.

01:01:01:05 - 01:01:18:18
Jason Howell
I wait and then I say in Swedish, I'm sorry, I don't speak Swedish. Do you speak English? It looks that way. Like, why the hell did you start this? You know, of course I speak English. I'm Swedish because I don't want to assume that everybody just speaks my language and, you know. But I guess. Yes. Yeah. No. Knowing just enough to get yourself in trouble.

01:01:18:18 - 01:01:39:24
Jason Howell
Oh. That one. Oh, yeah. Which is story. But, you know, I remember years ago I saw Eric Schmidt showing off one of the early translation things, saying this could be world peace. And no, it's not language that keeps us apart. It's beliefs and prejudices and, ignorance and other things, but still is pretty cool. The more we can, we can connect of this.

01:01:39:26 - 01:02:04:25
Jason Howell
Yeah, it does, it does. And I read, after the attack on Ukraine, I started reading for a while, the Helsingin Sanomat, the, Helsinki Sun. About paper, newspaper, thanks to Google Translate. And it's amazing. Absolutely amazing. And I was able to get respect over the world because of that on text, obviously. So I can see lots of applications down the line.

01:02:04:27 - 01:02:22:15
Jason Howell
But yeah, I think we've come up with the killers. Yeah, yeah. No, I think I think the technology is amazing. The fact that we can do this is amazing. I think the thing that I have that I have doubts, more doubts around is just the very simple, like, use these headphones to do live translation with the person that you're talking to.

01:02:22:15 - 01:02:44:11
Jason Howell
I just don't know how many people are doing that particular thing, but that but that technology, that capability has such wide reaching abilities and applications. You know, it's not just about the headphones example, like you said, you've you've listed a bunch of different, you know, ways in which it can get used. It's very, very useful. And no doubt it has applications that that do get used.

01:02:44:11 - 01:03:01:05
Jason Howell
I just wonder how many people are doing that with their standard headphones. You know, they might do it to test it out and be like, oh, it's neat that it does that, but are they ever going to do it again? Yeah, I'd be curious to know. And if you do and you're like yelling at us for saying that you don't contact at I it's I dot show send me an email.

01:03:01:05 - 01:03:25:27
Jason Howell
We're read it because I'm curious. Finally stepping off the Google bus, we've got Pew Research finding that nearly all us teens are online daily. Big surprise. They're 1 in 5 saying they are on TikTok or YouTube almost constantly. I don't know, like, you know a lot, I assume, but related to this show, at the same time, 64% of teens report using AI chat bots.

01:03:26:00 - 01:03:52:26
Jason Howell
3 in 10 use them daily. ChatGPT of course, dominating the space as far as that's concerned. So a whole lot of chat bot happening with teens. And interestingly so so in terms of demographics, the 64% of teens who use it, on there's not a lot of variance, urban it's 65% suburban, 67% rural, 57%, the higher the income of the family, the higher the use and so on.

01:03:52:28 - 01:04:14:05
Jason Howell
What's interesting is that, if you go down a little bit, black and Hispanic teens stand out for white teens as users of AI chat bots, says, Pew, if you go down some more, it's further down, I think, and a little more, a little more, a little. What? Are you there? Yes, there you are.

01:04:14:07 - 01:04:48:26
Jason Howell
There we go. And and the ones they use. So black teens are using, 65% of them are using, ChatGPT. Hispanic teens, 59% white teens, 55%. I think that could also be the rural thing coming in here. Gemini. Just general USA teens, 23%. Meta, 20%. Copilot 14%. Character AI 9%. Claude 3%. I think this is, I'm sure this was done before Gemini came out with all this new hot stuff, so I'll be curious what the next version of this has to say.

01:04:48:26 - 01:05:13:06
Jason Howell
But, the next generations. But even then, like people who are steeped in technology, you know, I would say have a difficult time discerning why one versus the other. ChatGPT is the obvious. Like, it's kind of, you know, to a certain thing that's kind of the Kleenex of of chat bots right now. And so, you know, I think a lot of teen users might just be like, oh, I oh, you mean like ChatGPT?

01:05:13:11 - 01:05:35:12
Jason Howell
That's going to be over there. Obvious. Go to no matter how Gemini. How good Gemini might be or whatever, though I think that because they're on Chrome and the more Chrome integrates maybe. Yeah, potentially. That'll do it. Yep. Yeah, yeah, that might draw them into I know, I know my older daughter uses ChatGPT I do yeah, we've talked about it and I've witnessed her.

01:05:35:14 - 01:05:52:23
Jason Howell
I'm kind of fascinated by it because I get it. You know, she's kind of like my my case study for how younger kids are interacting. You know, she's almost 16 so she's not like super. You know. You know, I mean she's she's not super duper young. But she's I know she's not alone. I know all her friends.

01:05:52:23 - 01:06:16:12
Jason Howell
You know, they check in with chat, you know, she calls the chat, you know, so it's interesting to watch. All right, well, that is the end of this episode of AI inside. Always a good time. Don't forget Jeff jarvis.com. For all of Jeff's amazing work, he's got type in the in the process right now, but also Gutenberg parenthesis magazine and the web we weave can be ordered right now.

01:06:16:12 - 01:06:41:24
Jason Howell
You can preorder hot type if you like and you should. It's all available from your site. Is the story of PostScript? Yes. Oh, okay. It'll be the story you told earlier in in more detail and in hot tub. Nice. There we go. Love that I have wizzy big AI inside dot show with everything you need to know, including our reviews section which needs to be entered or.

01:06:41:27 - 01:07:07:07
Jason Howell
Sorry, I'm not getting angry. I'm just. I'm just, just nudging, friendly little friendly nudging and then patreon.com slash AI inside show. Go there, support the show on a deeper level. You get ad free shows, you get a discord community. Which boy I'm trying to get better at. But I did mention, during, you know, the early part of this show that I have a bunch of swag I have.

01:07:07:12 - 01:07:36:25
Jason Howell
Let's see here. Let's let's go ahead and show it from video of yours. I have a brand new Google. You know, it's it has a Google logo on the back. Found it hat which is, you know, for search. There you go. I've got let's see here. This is a DeepMind shirt a Google DeepMind generation three. Copyright 2025. It also, I think it's a black t shirt, also has a Gemini logo on the sleeve.

01:07:36:27 - 01:07:55:21
Jason Howell
This is a size. Let's see. It's got this. Really. Their shirts have like this like metallic, nameplate or fob or credit card. I know, I mean, it feels it feels too high quality for what it is. You know what I mean? It's like it's it's a, it's a shirt, a tag. But. Yeah. Well, I imagine you could turn it over.

01:07:55:21 - 01:08:17:23
Jason Howell
Jason. Is that a luggage tag? No it's not. No, but that would be cool. Yeah. That would make me, regret giving this away. Not that not that the shirt itself isn't cool. These are actually really high quality, high quality shirts. This, this shirt, the deep mind is an XL size. And then I've got another one, which is, this one's actually really cool.

01:08:17:25 - 01:08:41:16
Jason Howell
This is an AI mode shirt. Nice back is. Let's see here. Is this, like, layout? It's. Yeah. And this is a large size if I'm not mistaken. Anyways, I've got a few shirts that I'm just I'm just not going to wear these like I would. They would become pajamas and I have plenty of pajamas. So Jason, what you should say is I'm dying to wear these myself.

01:08:41:19 - 01:09:09:09
Jason Howell
I'm going to keep these myself, but instead. Oh, okay. You are so valuable to us. I'm going to make a sacrifice. I should have had you do this. Because you're right. Are you sure? Jason? Are you sure you want to give this? Oh, actually, I was. Yes, Jeff, I'm going to. It hurts me much as it does, but it took this segment for me to realize I don't want to give these away after, but now I really, I have probably should.

01:09:09:09 - 01:09:33:17
Jason Howell
Now I have to. So all you have to do is go to patreon.com slash I inside show and become even a free patron if you just. If you're on the patron role, great. That's that's that's all that I care about. For the purposes of this giveaway, I've got three things. I don't know if I'm giving away each of them individually, or giving away two and coupling in the hat.

01:09:33:18 - 01:09:53:22
Jason Howell
Maybe I'll just do three individually, but go to Patreon.com slash Ironside show you can support at the tiers that are listed there. You can also become a free member. And basically that just means you get updates about the show after the fact. And that puts you in the running sometime, earlier in the day, next Tuesday. Sorry. Next Wednesday we have an episode.

01:09:53:22 - 01:10:15:19
Jason Howell
It's an interview episode. It's a pre-record, probably like that Tuesday evening at 11:59 p.m. Pacific, I guess to just name it, that's going to be like the deadline. So do it now and you might get one of these things shipped to you. I'll cover shipping costs, I don't care, I just want to I just want to throw these things around and, and get get them into you.

01:10:15:20 - 01:10:38:00
Jason Howell
And then when you feel so grateful for getting it, leave a nice review. Well, yeah. Yeah, seriously, do that too. We don't ask for much. Also, big thank you to our executive producers who got their own t shirt, of the show, doctor du, Jeffrey McKinney, radio Asheville, one of 3.7 Dante. Saint James. Bono. Derek. Jason night for Jason Brady, Anthony downs, Mark Archer and Carsten Szymanski.

01:10:38:07 - 01:10:57:22
Jason Howell
Thank you so, so very much for your support. Really love doing the show with you, Jeff. Thank you. I'm learning a lot here, boss, and it's a ton of fun. Thank you, everybody, for watching and for listening, for being with us each and every week. And, yeah, we'll see you next time on another episode of AI inside interview episode coming up next week.

01:10:57:26 - 01:11:00:20
Jason Howell
Killer interview. So stay tuned for that. We'll see you next time.