Is Jensen Huang Too Big to Fire?

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:31:26
Unknown
What's going on, everybody? Welcome to another episode of AI Inside the Show, where we take a look at the AI that is layered throughout the world of technology. I am only one of your hosts, Jason Howell. The other host of this show is Mr. Jeff Jarvis. How's it going, Jeff? Hey, boss. Good to see you. Good to see you, too.

00:00:32:29 - 00:00:50:18
Unknown
Boy, we got a lot of really big stuff to talk about right off the top. But before we do two things. First of all, last week I met up for coffee with one of our executive producers. Wonderful. Oh. That's great. He was in the area, and and so he hit me up, like, a month ago and said, hey, I'm passing through.

00:00:50:18 - 00:01:13:03
Unknown
You want to get coffee? And so we went to a local Peet's and chatted for close to an hour, and it was awesome. So, Mark, thanks for hitting me up and let's do it again sometime. It was it was a total blast. He did have some feedback that that, I could share with you. Is that he says, you know, the show focuses a lot on frontier.

00:01:13:05 - 00:01:31:09
Unknown
He says, you know, what about, you know, sharing some some of that spotlight with non frontier. And I totally agree, we see a lot of times when I'm gathering news, so much of it is just OpenAI and Anthropic and Google and today's sort of in that camp as well. I mean it's hard not to because they steal the spotlight, right?

00:01:31:09 - 00:01:54:26
Unknown
It's hard to know what else is is if people operate, models don't tend to be spies. So, you know, that's true. Maybe it's a little less dishy, the open world that we know of anyway, it's a little tease ahead. Also, I want to highlight something that you, put in the rundown that I thought was super cool, that you posted on your media account.

00:01:54:27 - 00:02:13:14
Unknown
Tell us about the the, glossary for AI cultists. You folks all know we talking about test real and all that. I just got frustrated. I saw a headline in Politico that said that the doomsayers at won the election about, AI and data centers, and no, it's the exact opposite. The Duma is lost and the good guys won, and everybody's confused.

00:02:13:19 - 00:02:36:04
Unknown
So I just said, finally, everyone is confused about this language. So I did the glossary of their language versus ours. So when they say future, they mean the way future. We mean tomorrow, next week, next the next year. When they say human, they mean humans hooked up with machines. We mean us. When they say, doom, we mean doom, but they have their own flavors of doom.

00:02:36:12 - 00:02:54:28
Unknown
And most importantly, when they say safety, they're not talking about the things that involve the environment and kids and disinformation. They're talking about the ten to the 50 for the future. Human beings. So as I wrote this, it ended up being a tutorial on Test Frail, because that's the basis of all of this stuff that they have. I didn't even intend that.

00:02:55:00 - 00:03:13:10
Unknown
But as you kind of add it all up, just real, rather than trying to explain it from the beginning then. So I hope you find it useful, and be useful at the end of it. I finished writing it over the weekend, and then by the end I saw that Politico had changed this headline anyway. So so somebody, somebody got to them, told them.

00:03:13:10 - 00:03:32:24
Unknown
So, I wonder, see if it's useful. Pass it around, folks. I'd be grateful. And if you have any other words I missed, by all means let me know. Yeah. And a lot of this, these are themes that come up on the show regularly, like, for example, regulation, what we mean governing government intervention in an industry or activity to ensure mandated level of transparency and accountability to the public good.

00:03:32:26 - 00:03:50:14
Unknown
What the I called this mean the so-called frontier AI companies say they favor regulation, but in reality they want to write the regulations that favor themselves. And, you know, regulatory capture and all that. That's just one example. But there's a lot of really great stuff in here. And, definitely wanted to highlight it because I think it's, it's a good manual.

00:03:50:21 - 00:04:13:15
Unknown
I might take you past the song to a couple of my friends. So because, yeah, I think I think the election has brought some of this, stuff. And along with it, some of the misunderstanding around these things to the surface again. And so this is a really great. Right. And if all the politicians of think of when they think of AI as data centers, they're missing the real point.

00:04:13:18 - 00:04:33:01
Unknown
And I think to your feedback from coffee, the attention that's paid to the frontier guys is the wrong kind of attention they're listened to. When we accept what they say, we don't press them for definitions. We don't press them. Right. They're saying and we need to do that as journalists. So thank you. Yes. Love it. Cool.

00:04:33:01 - 00:04:52:22
Unknown
All right. So today we're going to start with the story that we basically dismissed on last week. Yeah I got I got to do a bad culpa here because last week I said all the times the reporting on Jensen Huang and the Chinese thing. I can't believe he's too smart for this. I can't believe I did that and, I dismissed it.

00:04:52:27 - 00:05:22:04
Unknown
My fault. Never underestimate a little libido of men. Yeah, forget into a bad honeypot. Kind of. Kind of. Kind of, seems where this is headed over the weekend, basically. Jensen Huang, CEO of Nvidia, basically, admitted to having an affair with Alice Huang. No relation to Jensen, of course. I sent a memo to employees at Nvidia, basically saying like, yep, this happened.

00:05:23:01 - 00:06:04:18
Unknown
Sorry. You know, I'm sorry. You know, all the, all the standard things that happened that we've gotten very used to hearing when, guys of significant power are caught doing things like this. They say they're Maricopa. They hope to move on. But moving on isn't so easy when it's Jensen, Huang, slash, Nvidia and Nvidia is the company that it is both in the AI realm, which is kind of interconnected with everything in big Tech right now and just the world and politics, because Nvidia and trade, international trade, trade with China, all this stuff, it's a whole combo also happening at a time, at least here in the US, where there was a major election.

00:06:04:18 - 00:06:36:06
Unknown
And and as a result of that, a very significant transition of, influence and power and politics here. That's going to, you know, play a part here too. So, yeah, so lots, lots of lots. So much here. So I by the way, I just texted you, I put, Justin Wang's apology through, Pan Graham, and it said it was half, I written, which I think is mainly makes fun of pentagram, because some lines are just like.

00:06:36:09 - 00:06:53:18
Unknown
Instead, I let them down and damage the life we built together. I take full responsibility for what I did and the hurt I caused, and I accept the criticism that comes with it. Well, yeah, that's just that's just boilerplate. Yeah. Admission of an affair. Right? It's everywhere. So, yeah, whether I wrote it or whether the PR department wrote it or whoever.

00:06:54:28 - 00:07:16:29
Unknown
The writing is based on human writing. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, the me was, as I said, the beams are just delicious. No, we didn't mean that kind of Chinese model. And, putting Jensen in as, Elizabeth Holmes with big eyes. Oh, yeah, that was a good one. All kinds of good one.

00:07:17:01 - 00:07:50:23
Unknown
The interesting angle to the story this morning, though, Jason, as I was listening to Ms.. Now and analysts there were saying that part of the story here is that the Trump administration knew about this sometime ago. Rubio wrote a memo warning of this some time ago, and now there's a lot of attention on the executive branch, because, as it seems now, it's possible that they didn't alert Jensen Huang that he was having a relationship with a person who was apparently believed to be a Chinese spy.

00:07:50:25 - 00:08:10:09
Unknown
And by they didn't alert. You mean the government, Trump, the Trump administration, you know, the government, whether that was the CIA or whether it was the FBI or whether that was other other departments. Okay, there are those who were saying that, these various departments should have been alerted. They may not have been, Trump was told.

00:08:10:11 - 00:08:32:29
Unknown
And, Trump met with Jensen Wong. Justin Wong went to China with him. They sat right next to the premier between them. The question is, I mean, to the extent you can say Jensen Huang, when one would hope would be cautious. Well, he wasn't cautious, obviously. But but knowing his Chinese should have been at least aware of the possibilities here.

00:08:33:08 - 00:09:02:00
Unknown
And I did say that last week is that everyone is on alert. If you're dealing with someone from China, whether they're the watcher or the watched, but if the government knew and if the government didn't do what was supposed to do, then the story backs up on them. And of course, Jensen Wang is a major contributor, to various Trump activities and has been around the president and the government needs Nvidia to succeed here.

00:09:02:27 - 00:09:18:13
Unknown
So the government angle here, the political angle here as the Democrats coming to power in Congress is going to be fascinating. Justin Wong is going to he's going to have to appear Congress in all kinds of embarrassing ways to deal with this. And he's going to be asked what he knew and what he didn't know about her.

00:09:18:15 - 00:09:40:10
Unknown
And her activities. What did he didn't tell her, what is his, security clearance? What information does he have? He's going to keep that security clearance if he has it. That's all. Fascinating stuff here to roil around. Right. As befits his position at Nvidia. Yeah, this is his position at Nvidia. And on shaky ground. He's too big to fire.

00:09:40:26 - 00:09:58:27
Unknown
And the board needs him and wants him. The company needs him. He doesn't have a succession plan. That's been an issue some are worried about. I mean, we thought he was the good guy, and he's still a one of the smart guys, and he's still one of the otherwise sane guys in the insane world of AI.

00:09:58:29 - 00:10:26:17
Unknown
But Nvidia is the linchpin to so much, and he is the lynchpin to Nvidia. And so I don't see any way that he can leave the company. Just how does the board have new oversight on him? The. Yeah, the one of the many unanswered questions is did he know, right, that she was potentially I mean, is she confirmed to to be doing asset it's just or is it still just suspicion and.

00:10:26:17 - 00:10:46:21
Unknown
Yeah it's China. Yeah. So everyone I'm not trying to say that there's a sensitivity around that that. Well sensitivity around that. Yeah. It's it's I mean if you were East German at the time, it didn't come out to all your friends and neighbors who turned out to be informers on you. Until after the wall came down and you didn't know.

00:10:46:24 - 00:11:05:10
Unknown
And in China, there are all kinds of of pressure points on people. Yeah. And if you're in a certain position, then, you're going to be asked questions. You're going to be expect to say things. Also, she bought, I think it was a 40,000 chips. And where did they end up. She was at a company right, providing offshore access.

00:11:05:13 - 00:11:24:01
Unknown
But one of the things about the Chinese not getting us chips is all they need to do is hook into a cable to some place in Singapore and use servers there. The Chinese can have access to Nvidia chips by just not having the onshore. Her and her company was was was doing some of that offshore hosting. So that's her company Mega speed.

00:11:24:01 - 00:11:50:27
Unknown
That's what they think is yes. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's a very it's a complex story. If he was informed she was a, suspected as a spy. And you continued, that's one story. If she was not informed, that's another story. Doesn't let him off the hook for being dumb and following his other reasons. Dozens of bad places.

00:11:50:29 - 00:12:13:18
Unknown
Yeah, but, it becomes, again, a very different story. Now, should he have suspected? Yes. What did he tell her? Well, that's between that's pillow talk. We don't. We're never going to know. We'll never know that. Yeah, right. Yeah. So everybody's going to have fun on this one. Yeah. So apparently she and she being Alice Wong again.

00:12:13:18 - 00:12:38:13
Unknown
No relation to Jensen. Same last name. But anyways met at an Nvidia event in early 2024 and then there have been photos of the two ever since. First photos of them at Computex in Taipei, June 2024. There's a video from May which shows her kissing him on the cheek. I mean, some of this feels really tabloid, right?

00:12:38:16 - 00:12:57:14
Unknown
It does. And if you know, if, if, if when I go to Europe, you do the kiss kiss thing. Yeah. That's true. That doesn't necessarily mean anything. Yeah. No. Although he is saying that yes I, I cheated on my, my wife and I'm super sorry and well and that's the other angle to this I'm watching the show right now.

00:12:57:19 - 00:13:23:09
Unknown
The HBO show War, which is about a very high powered divorce. It's really good. Interesting. Yeah, that's how it is in this context. Because what about Jason Wong's wife? She and his kids work at the company. His kids work at the company, right. And high level positions in strategic positions. And his wife has been a major, basically, you know, advisor and supporter of his for the years.

00:13:23:11 - 00:13:47:09
Unknown
And she has, control, have control over shares that are in a trust and so on, so forth. If they got divorced, what happens to control the show of the official show of the company, of the company? Yeah. Just all these angles and not to mention she's apparently at least the reporting is there's no prenup in place.

00:13:47:09 - 00:14:11:00
Unknown
So she would end up with half his, his fortune which is somewhere in the region of like 150 billion worth. Is that right? No. What he's worth. What's the latest is that it's just ridiculous, if that's true. But, Well, it's very, very, very Amazon. Yeah. So Justin Wong's net worth is 148 $255 billion. Geez, he's the 12th richest person.

00:14:11:24 - 00:14:34:27
Unknown
And that's only the 12th richest. And, that that level. That just blows my mind. And then the, so the, Oh, the Jeff Bezos Mackenzie Scott was a settlement of 38 billion. This would be like double that, potentially. Potentially according to potentially. Yeah. California. Exactly. But bigger question is than control. And how secure is he.

00:14:34:27 - 00:14:59:17
Unknown
Yeah. But and the board is filled with friends of his, which is, which is not to be surprised, but he is critical to the vision of India. You know, Sam Altman is an engineer. One could argue whether he could be replaced. He's really good at fundraising. Dario Ahmadi has his vision for anthropic, but it's a bit of my view.

00:14:59:17 - 00:15:40:26
Unknown
Crackpot, but installs a vision for the company. Could he could be replaced. The Google's founders have been replaced. Yeah, Bezos replaced himself. Right now, I don't think Justin Wong can be easily be replaced. And it is so critical to the entire ecosystem of AI right now. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. So I put up this thing in, in the, rundown of the, the comprehensive guide to the Bank of Nvidia, and it's it's, if I were to go to a great detail right now, all roads lead to Nvidia.

00:15:40:26 - 00:16:09:05
Unknown
If you go through it, you see all the capital, that is promised to suppliers, that is promised from, companies it supplies. It has 99 billions in stakes in AI companies. It expects buybacks of 235 billion. It's given backstops of 164 billion to others, promised to suppliers, 279 billion advanced for parts and factories and all that.

00:16:09:17 - 00:16:38:02
Unknown
It's a huge, huge economic, crux to the entirety of AI right now. And thus the entire U.S. economy right now, all the growth we've had is AI. So you worry about too big to fail and too big to fire you. They gotta find a way to put some controls on him. But even if you're the Democrats, I don't think you can afford to call for his head.

00:16:38:05 - 00:16:54:25
Unknown
The Republicans aren't going to, because Trump has already said he's a good guy. He's important. I don't think he knew anything. And Trump needs them. Yeah. So he's been pretty vocal like now. Yeah. It's a it's all good. It's all good. But how does Justin Wong manage going forward. What is the next key. Don't look like I mean it's true.

00:16:54:28 - 00:17:22:27
Unknown
What a story. What a story. And so what's more folks I was wrong to dismiss this last week. Hey you know we don't know until we know hindsight is 2020. All those things. And meanwhile, Jensen, get yourself some leather pants with a lock on him. Boy. Yeah, there's so much to learn from this story. The least of which is is don't do that sort of stupid stuff.

00:17:22:27 - 00:17:45:14
Unknown
Don't, Yeah. But anyways. Yeah. And I feel I feel bad for their family. Other two. I mean, this, you know, it doesn't get more high profile than that. This is the entire world knows about this intensely personal aspect of your life. And I just couldn't even imagine what that's like to you want to talk about a tough Thanksgiving dinner, man,

00:17:45:16 - 00:18:08:22
Unknown
Yeah. What exactly do we have to be thankful for? Right now, other than the fact that I'm worth $150 billion and, Boy, yeah. So I guess, I guess we'll see. And I think it is interesting what you mentioned, you know, just because the, transition of this, this moment of, transition in American politics, it would be easy to think that.

00:18:08:22 - 00:18:35:15
Unknown
Okay, so anything's possible. But you're right. Nvidia's too important to so much of the economy, the tech economy, the AI economy, all of the above. We talked about circular financing. And any time we did, I feel like Nvidia's part of that part of that story. Yes, yes. If that changes. And I mean, so what is Nvidia what has been the impact on Nvidia on Wall Street?

00:18:35:17 - 00:18:55:26
Unknown
Well, so the stock went down, I think 5% the first day, 6% the second day. Today it's up about 4%. So it's recovering a little bit. Yeah. So I think it's, it's not going to go away. So if I had extra money I'd probably say this is you know this is a dip to buy on.

00:18:55:28 - 00:19:22:28
Unknown
Yeah. Not never never never follow the followers. That's an advice. Definitely. Well wasn't there there was also some short seller that that saw clues of this that mentioned it like six months ago or something. Yeah. A Culper research. Yeah. Someone at Culper Research flagged the uncomfortably close relationship ship back in May. This was six months ago. So, you know, a little, little while away.

00:19:23:00 - 00:19:46:09
Unknown
Yeah. I'm just at the end of the day, I'm just really curious. Like, how much did Jensen actually know going through this and, well, what how much? What did he say? That was a value to her. So there's, there's there's talk about this being a cyber security risk, but it's also just an industrial, spying risk. Right.

00:19:46:09 - 00:20:20:25
Unknown
So what was more valuable to China. I'm not sure that it was security issues and national security issues. I think it was probably more industrial. Espionage. Well, so the US suspects reportedly. Anyways, that Mega speed bought around $4.8 billion in Nvidia hardware between June 24th and, February 26th, 2026, 2024. And then they say that, the reason for that was to pass along those chips to Chinese companies that were barred from buying it.

00:20:20:27 - 00:20:42:03
Unknown
Nvidia did an audit, last year that found Mega speed had about 50,000 fewer chips in its data centers than they had shipped than had been shipped to it. So, those two things together don't sound very good either. And we've talked about this to show off. And Jensen Wang has been very vocal saying that we're fools to cut off China for the chips.

00:20:42:06 - 00:21:04:05
Unknown
Yeah. And I think he's right, but it takes on a new nuance now. It does. Now it's kind of like, okay, well where's that coming from? Is that coming from? I have a like under the radar coercion through this relationship or is that coming through a calculated kind of, you know, engagement through the relationship? It really is.

00:21:04:05 - 00:21:30:03
Unknown
This is going to be really interesting. And we're. Was he just a dork? Exactly. Was he a pun? Was he going to use this to blackmail him? Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking maybe there might be, like, a, like a social reckoning, or just movie time bad movie dance dilemma or whatever the video series is. There's something here.

00:21:30:05 - 00:21:50:09
Unknown
There's something here coming up. And in the future, I imagine, it has all the makings of a good Hollywood. Good experience. There are no charges. Of course, at this point, there's nothing, you know, it's important to keep that in mind. This is still very much developing and very much kind of speculation territory as far as, like what now?

00:21:50:10 - 00:22:08:12
Unknown
Yeah. I don't think there's going to be any criminal charges here because it would come from the Justice Department that's controlled by Trump. By the time we get two years from now, would you in a different Justice Department, maybe, it's going to we're going to be moving on to the next thing. Yeah. Well, speaking of moving on to the next thing, I let's see here.

00:22:08:12 - 00:22:38:02
Unknown
I got a, I got a new, machine, a new laptop. Virgil's just so jealous. I know, I'm sorry, Jeff, but I got the Asus Google Book 14 delivered to me yesterday, and, Yeah. So I just received it last night. I unboxed it and then right away went right into Android Faithful podcast. But, I got to say, you know, you went to the event, so you it's possible you saw this this one in person.

00:22:38:03 - 00:23:00:25
Unknown
Yeah. Did while you were there? Yeah. This is, you know, pretty expensive, for for the Google books. It's it's right up at the top as far as the price of the others is $1,300, tied with the HP unit, for most expensive of the first Google books. And, yeah, you know, it's really light. It's it's got, like, a metallic, kind of gritty metallic finish that's really, really nice.

00:23:00:27 - 00:23:24:07
Unknown
You know, looking at the display, it's it's matte, but it looks really nice. In person. I've only barely set it up, and I think I need to retrain my fingerprint, because every time I try and scan it, it doesn't work. Hey, it worked that time. So anyways, I haven't played around with any of the software here, which is kind of the reason that we would even talk about this on on AI inside, because it has the, let's see if I jiggle the cursor, does it do the Gemini thing?

00:23:24:07 - 00:23:43:29
Unknown
Or maybe I need to set it up. I haven't really set up anything and it's not doing it. Anyways, I'm excited to play around with this and, kind of see what it's all about, but, yeah. So it's really interesting looking a Acer. Hello, hello, I, I've been using Chromebooks for 14 years. Hello. I went to the event.

00:23:45:07 - 00:24:15:13
Unknown
Interesting to watch the, reception to this, Robbie Payne who does Chrome Unboxed does video. So they're great. They're, they're really wonderful and I, I hang on on his word. He made a video that was, Very reasonable, very fair and pretty harsh about the Google book and the things that it doesn't not just not just like, this versus that Google book, but Google, you know, everyone has raved about the hardware.

00:24:15:13 - 00:24:36:29
Unknown
I've heard no complaint about the hardware at all. Yeah, it's all software. Which is all to say it's all Google's responsibility. Right. And they didn't think a lot of things through. Some apps don't work. Well, some things that should be an app or a PWA or whatever. That's that's the picky. There's just some stuff that they lost along the path here that doesn't work.

00:24:38:20 - 00:24:55:28
Unknown
They, they weren't ready to release. I think it's basically what it is. So they came out with a new build, I think five days ago or so. That solved a bunch of problems. And I'm sure yours is on the latest build here. And maybe, I mean, I just unboxed it, so, you know, it probably needs to be updated.

00:24:55:28 - 00:25:14:07
Unknown
Probably does. Yeah. And that fix some things. It was, it was using up, too much Ram. Some of the stuff, you know, because part of the part of the advantage of this is because you're an android. God, when you're doing something on your Android phone, you should be able to just go right over and, continue it on your laptop.

00:25:14:13 - 00:25:32:15
Unknown
It's really more of an Android machine that it is a Chrome OS machine. Yeah, but they lost some of the benefits of the Chrome browser along the way. And some of that doesn't work. Well. Now, the other thing is something like sometimes when you run something, it's running it on your phone and that causes a lag. And that's an issue.

00:25:32:29 - 00:25:55:15
Unknown
So I would look at, Robbie's video, Jason, and see, how much you think was valid and how much has been fixed in the meantime. But the hardware, as I say, got great reviews. Now, the other thing that's happening is that these all have fans. The, what's the chip that I have in mind?

00:25:55:15 - 00:26:18:14
Unknown
The, MediaTek, one is not out yet. That's going to be a separable screen from keyboard, and a lot of folks are waiting eagerly for that. Well, the detachable, detachable at the MediaTek chip, lower power chip. So we'll see what I think. So we're waiting for that. Our friend Craig Newmark wanted that one, but it's not out yet, so he bought the one you have in your hand.

00:26:18:16 - 00:26:42:09
Unknown
Yeah, this one has an Intel and an Intel Core Ultra five. Right. 25. I'll be very eager to hear your review. Yeah, I'm super curious to, to play around with it. I mean, at this point, I feel like I've heard and read so many negative reviews. Like you said of the OS experience. At the same time, I'm also kind of a little battle worn when it comes to this stuff, because I've been on Android for as long as I have.

00:26:42:09 - 00:26:59:01
Unknown
So yeah, I'm kind of used to things not working out of the box, so I might be a little bit more. Well, I'm especially eager to hear you because you are such an Android expert and you live loving Android. Yeah. To see what advantages you see it it because you are so well versed in Android, it's going to be really interesting to hear.

00:26:59:04 - 00:27:25:00
Unknown
Yeah, I also want to hear about the AI stuff, the jiggling cursor. Not Ravel babble. It's supposed to be on there. I'd be interested to see how that works. Babble. Rambler. Rebel. Rambler. Rambler. There we go. Yes. I was like babble. That's like, I think that's like language, car lessons. So obviously you hear the how the AI works on there.

00:27:25:00 - 00:27:45:06
Unknown
So. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, I will, let you know I'm planning on spending the next two, three weeks, with it to kind of see, you know, see how it is both as a machine, but also as, like an AI computer. And actually a little bit later, we're going to talk about another AI computing story that could have really bumped up with this.

00:27:45:06 - 00:28:06:21
Unknown
But we got to take a break. I do want to thank our patrons Patreon.com slash AI inside show. We do have a new patron to throw out the name here Chad. Is it Steve or spell it German? It would be Steve, but I don't know what. Chad. Steve. That's that's better than my guessing the you at least have a point of, of comparison for it.

00:28:06:21 - 00:28:23:13
Unknown
So there we go. Yeah. You join when you join the Patreon folks, if you have a chance to send Jason a note on front of your name, let's do that. It's helpful. And if you don't, I'm sorry if I mispronounce it, but it is nonetheless. We are very great. Grateful to have you here, Chad. So thank you for joining us.

00:28:23:13 - 00:28:42:05
Unknown
You can join us as well. Patreon.com comma AI Inside show. Appreciate you all. Going to take a break after the break. I'm going to give you a review of Gemini for carbon because I've been using it for a few weeks. Jason gets all the goodies. Apparently I get all the goodies. So we're going to talk about that after this break.

00:28:45:21 - 00:29:12:01
Unknown
All right. So Google rolled out Gemini for carbon just yesterday like they had announced it a few weeks back. This is basically their next frontier model after argon, which they had released only a couple of weeks before carbon. And I think that release kind of it's it's kind of it's confusing to me because when argon came out, it was like, oh, finally Google's stepping into the modern frontier.

00:29:12:01 - 00:29:31:16
Unknown
You know, there's they've been so behind. And then two weeks later, it's like, oh, no, actually that wasn't it. This is it. This is the true frontier. That was just a step to it. Two weeks later, anyways, carbon came out. Google did the thing where it held it for a few weeks and was seeding it to, cybersecurity professionals to battle, test it and all that kind of stuff.

00:29:31:22 - 00:29:51:27
Unknown
And they also seeded it to some, early Access folks, myself included. So I've had, carbon for a few weeks now. And, you know, this this is a model that you only get if you're on the 99 or the $100 a month tier, and up. So there might be a time where this comes down, to the lower models.

00:29:51:27 - 00:30:18:12
Unknown
I'm sure it will at some point. Gemini app I mode and search anti-gravity. If you're of that, that tier. And, Google is basically still recommending that argon is for more of the everyday stuff. Carbon, which is the latest one is the heavy, right. It's it's the one that you want to use for real. Kind of like structural deep research, coding.

00:30:18:17 - 00:30:43:02
Unknown
Like real deep coding stuff. That's why it's that's why it's really, you know, they're, they're touting it as being so good at cyber cyber defense and cyber security and stuff, actually tops artificial analysis intelligence index right now, which is good for cyber defenders, that sort of stuff. So carbon is out. I with these things, it's like, okay, I have access to this amazingly powerful, model.

00:30:43:02 - 00:31:00:07
Unknown
What the heck do I do with it? I don't know, you'd probably imagine you'd probably find yourself in the same position, Jeff, where I'm, like, scratching my head. I'm like, I don't even know how to test this. Like, what can I do that somebody else can't do better, right? A lot of people out there, like I read their roundups and they're like, I built this blah.

00:31:00:10 - 00:31:21:15
Unknown
You know, it's this huge architecture thing that's really impressive and everything. I'm like, I just run my business is what I do. So I ended up, I showed off the design of the AI inside, website last week, but this was made entirely top to bottom by carbon. Little did you know. Little did you know. Down, down, down.

00:31:21:19 - 00:31:50:25
Unknown
So, this was done in a matter of basically two afternoons where I basically went into carbon and I said, you know, I've got a show page for, for the podcast. I don't feel like it represents the personality of the show. It doesn't it doesn't match the new podcast art. I want a website that's that feels dynamic, feels modern, you know, bring brings in the design notes of the podcast art into the design and everything.

00:31:50:27 - 00:32:12:07
Unknown
And, you know, and I made sure to tell it like, don't put anything, don't publish anything. This is all staging. And so the the back end of my, of our website is a is a service called beam Lee, which used to be called Pod podcast pages I think.io. And so that's kind of like our CMS or whatever. And so I basically just like gave it the keys.

00:32:12:07 - 00:32:27:22
Unknown
Like I logged in and I said, all right, I want you to stage a new website. And from there it was just two afternoons of going back and forth with it, you know, here's here's where I'm at. And then I'd go top to bottom, right. And desktop. Oh, there's, there's a weird little thing here. You know, I just do voice memo or whatever.

00:32:27:24 - 00:32:46:10
Unknown
Spend ten minutes like telling it all of my feedback and then hit send. And then it would go to work for another hour or whatever, and it would send out all these, you know, it had these swarms of agents that it was spinning out different directions to tackle different things so that it was faster. And in a matter of two days, I ended up with a website that I asked.

00:32:46:14 - 00:33:09:10
Unknown
It's really great. I have to say it like it. It really did everything so well and it's such an upgrade from the previous version. Nobody back and forth. So many iterations. Would you say there were, how many iterations? If I had to say, yeah, yeah, it is hard to say. I mean, if I had to have got to, how would I even, you know, represent that numbers?

00:33:09:11 - 00:33:33:02
Unknown
I mean, you know, there were probably like, six, eight different kind of versions, like, what was it like 30, 30 versions or so? No. And I think that was actually and that might even be more than there was. It was probably about 6 to 8. I could I could almost always find a little something that was weird or something that was like justified strangely or whatever.

00:33:33:02 - 00:33:49:17
Unknown
But for the most part, I mean, the first time I ran it and then it came back with a website, it looked very, very close to what you see on the landing page, because I basically focused on the landing page first. But there were little details that it missed, like little hover things like this would pop out.

00:33:49:23 - 00:34:10:29
Unknown
The Join the Patreon button would pop out if I hovered, but these buttons might not pop out or whatever. And so I'm like, okay, I want all those kinds of buttons to be uniform and to match their behavior, you know? And so I'd send it in along with a bunch of other instructions, and it would just do it and then it would come back and I'm like, gosh, well, I'm really having to search high and low to try and find something that's wrong with this.

00:34:11:13 - 00:34:35:11
Unknown
There was like a static button here next to the new episodes every Wednesday. I was like, would it be cool if that was like a recording, flashing indicator? And it did that, you know, and then it and then it, like, put that on every single page has the little flashing indicator, you know, no matter what page you go to, it's like consistent this little, this little breakout thing that highlights the, the important, part of the title for every page.

00:34:36:09 - 00:34:54:15
Unknown
At a certain point I was like, okay, but the fourth wall, which is where our merchandise pages, looks old and weird. It's a different site. It's not embedded in my site. I was like, I want the fourth wall page for our shop to somewhat match the design, and so it completely matched it. You don't even know that you're at a fourth wall page anymore.

00:34:54:15 - 00:35:14:02
Unknown
It, like, looks exactly like the site, except it adds in the little payment. It's pretty freaking amazing. And it's and this was a one shot. This was like just make it match. And I went over when it was done and it was good, I was like, I have no changes. This thing looks awesome. So you know that there are probably much better ways to test carbon.

00:35:14:17 - 00:35:38:24
Unknown
And actually, I'll talk about one more here in a second that I did. But, I was incredibly impressed with how easy this was, how good it looks like, how genuinely satisfied I am with it. Like it's exactly what I was hoping for. So. All right, I consider that a huge win. Yeah, yeah. I'd heard about, you know, how how strong these models are for for web coding.

00:35:38:24 - 00:36:00:17
Unknown
And maybe some of this stuff is stuff that other ones could do as well, but it has this swarm feature that you can activate slash swarm, and that will break all of the tasks down into these individual things. So in other words, it makes everything go faster. But it also kind of focuses the agent on that specific work instead of everything.

00:36:00:20 - 00:36:17:21
Unknown
And that's helpful. Yeah. And I think I think we talked about this in present terms. We talked about swarms of agents. Yeah. That sounds so right. In a way. It's subroutines. Yeah. So the thing is it makes it as it goes. Oh I need something to do this. Okay. I'll make a subroutine that goes in, does that and then finishes it.

00:36:17:21 - 00:36:33:08
Unknown
And meanwhile I'm doing something else. Right. It's. Yes. Now I realized suddenly, oh, in my work, I realized this would make this better. This would make this more useful. I don't even know that you have to explicitly call for the swarm, but I did because I wanted to test it. And sure enough, you know it did the trick.

00:36:33:29 - 00:37:01:19
Unknown
One other thing that I can talk about, but I can't really show it, and you'll understand why is, part of my wife and I kind of, retirement plan is investment properties. We have a handful of properties throughout the country. And one thing I wanted to do is, like, I've got all of these disparate, disconnected data stores of information related to the properties, and we've got this one, financial site that we use to kind of keep track of our expenses.

00:37:01:19 - 00:37:18:27
Unknown
And, and if we're doing our job right, lining up like property management reports and breaking them out for different repairs and everything and putting that into the the whole log. And I knew that it had fallen really out of date. Like we we try to keep up on it, but it's it's hard to catch all the details and everything.

00:37:19:00 - 00:37:40:09
Unknown
So I basically pointed carbon to all of those data points that were probably like 7 or 8 different directions, you know, Google Drive, a folder on my computer, all these different things. And I said, I want this online database to be brought completely up to date and verified for the past four years. And it spent and it put out a swarm of like ten different agents.

00:37:40:09 - 00:37:59:06
Unknown
And it was cool to kind of check in on each swarm, be like, what are you focused on? Oh, you're pulling the property management reports from that property management website. Oh, you're searching my email for, you know, this, this type of data or correspondence or whatever. And and it just did it and it actually saved me some money.

00:37:59:06 - 00:38:20:29
Unknown
Like it found a duplicate entry which actually save some money. And, it was just really impressive. Took, took a number of hours for that one to complete. But once it did and I verified and went through and checked, I was like, oh, see this? This is always stressful at tax season. And now I'm like, I can just be like, go, carbon, can you find me some more money, please?

00:38:21:02 - 00:38:45:03
Unknown
Yes. I would love for you to find me even more money. So anyways, carbon huge fan. I think the kind of big takeaway for me is again, and I think we said this with Oregon, but, definitely feeling this with carbon is that, Google feels more and more like they're they're kind of back in the front of the race along with the other frontier.

00:38:45:05 - 00:39:05:08
Unknown
Yeah. You never call them. They deserve to be in this. Yeah. And I think this and and this was also my first experience, working deeply with antigravity, which is, you know, kind of Google's, standalone software for coding specifically, but you can use it for things that aren't coding, and it's just it approaches it differently.

00:39:05:08 - 00:39:30:22
Unknown
And I actually really like anti-gravity a lot. So it was a ton of fun. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Yeah. And, you know, if you've got, an account of a certain level, you have access to it now, I imagine that that access is going to come down over time. Jason takes you inside it. I, I try, I try, so that is Gemini for carbon.

00:39:30:24 - 00:40:03:06
Unknown
Let's see here. What else do we have? We have, fable 5.2, as well as missile mythos 5.2. I think this is just kind of along the lines of of agents and new models. Anthropic released their new versions of, their top tier. And what's interesting about this for me, anyways, is, remote labor index, which is a way of it's a benchmark, basically for AI that tests if and how complete it can, actually carry through on freelance projects.

00:40:03:13 - 00:40:24:21
Unknown
So the things that you might, unfortunately hire someone for on like Upwork or Fiber, this is how they're testing it for that. Right. So they threw 240 projects, things like video editing, CAD, game development, data analysis, all that kind of stuff, stuff that like, I think a lot of these companies are saying, oh, well, this is going to do all that stuff someday.

00:40:24:21 - 00:40:42:12
Unknown
But then when you actually try and do it, you're like, yeah, but it doesn't do it nearly as well as a human does. And I think they, they kind of general stat to to know here is that they basically with fable 5.2, they doubled what it was a year ago. Well actually more than doubled a year ago.

00:40:42:12 - 00:41:23:03
Unknown
The top score was 2.5%. Now fable 5.2 is at 41.3%. So nowhere near perfect. And they did a human, they had human, analysis of the results to kind of check for things like is the job complete? Is it comprehensive? Is it just, you know, is it saying, hey, I did the thing you asked me to, but it's incredibly flawed when you actually look at it and not polished and just kind of seems like these things are getting better and better at they're they're for better and for worse for those people on Fiverr who are doing some of these things, unless you can do more because of it, less, you can go to the

00:41:23:03 - 00:41:46:01
Unknown
details unless you can take charge of it. Well, yeah. Like I think about my own use last, like so on the Android Faithful podcast. I am the post producer, so I still edit that video. I don't edit I inside except for today. But I generally hire an editor for AI inside and and I work with an editor to do post-production and publishing and all that, which is great.

00:41:46:16 - 00:42:08:00
Unknown
But for Android faithful, I do it. And I have now created a system inside of ChatGPT. I actually want to test it with, with Karbon, where when I'm done editing the main show, I fire off the skill and I say, these are the three stories I really liked from this. This thing. Break out the clips into their own video files.

00:42:08:20 - 00:42:30:15
Unknown
Pull out, thumbnail screenshots that could be integrated into a thumbnail, create the thumbnail in Photoshop, and then give me all the pieces so I can upload it to YouTube studio. And I've done that the last couple of weeks on the the AI inside, YouTube channel. And it's not perfect, but it does. I'd say like 75% of the work.

00:42:30:17 - 00:42:51:08
Unknown
Well that's good. And then I sit down and I polish it, and it's such a better use of my time because I'm doing a million things all the time. And so that's what this reminded me of. It's like, oh, we're getting closer to that actually being an incredibly polished experience instead of just mostly. Yep. Yeah, that's where these things are headed.

00:42:51:11 - 00:43:17:06
Unknown
Do we need to mention anything about the IPO? No. The other founders are each worth, 18 billion. If they end up with the current price, it's going to be anywhere from one 3 to 1 five. They're pushing it. You know, and Dario was on some video this week with the round of the socials predicting that all these diseases, Alzheimer's and and cancer would be cured within ten years because of his technology, which is just irritating.

00:43:17:22 - 00:43:33:21
Unknown
All these scientists doing all this work. And to come along with the hubris to think, oh, we could we can do all that. We'll see, we'll see. Yeah, we'll see about that. Keep your head down. Yeah. You can say you can say all the things you want, but how the heck do you know? Yeah. You're just making a guess like everyone else.

00:43:33:21 - 00:43:53:27
Unknown
And who the heck knows. Yep. Yeah. Interesting stuff there. I just, I feel like every time I open tech meme, there's something about anthropic IPO. And at this point I'm just like, okay, I get it, I get it. Oh yeah. You know, it's kind of get to sit with how we move on from it. But I guess we got to wade through it.

00:43:53:29 - 00:44:14:00
Unknown
OpenAI had numbers out and their losses were bigger than people thought. So they're really hanging back on the IPO. So at least we'll have a break. I think. Yeah. Yeah. Whoops. Hopefully. So, do you remember Cyanogen on on the Android. Yeah. It Brian brought in memory cells that I haven't heard that name in a long time.

00:44:14:03 - 00:44:46:00
Unknown
Cyanogen was like an alternative operating system for well, based on Android. It was an alternative version of Android that attempted, I would say, to write some of their perceived wrongs of Google's version of Android and to give users the ability to do things that Google might not allow them to do. Right. And a lot of people in the modding world, the ROM flashers and everything in the Android space loved Cyanogen.

00:44:46:01 - 00:45:20:09
Unknown
You know, some of the phones that I have on the the kind of cabinet behind me and my shot certainly have some sort of Cyanogen OS flashed on it from decade ago or whatever. Cyanogen was like the most well known name for kind of an alternative, OS, version of Android on Android devices. And, Kirt McMaster was one of the guys leading at a co-founder, and he's basically saying that he's taking the lessons that he learned from Cyanogen, which has been gone for a number of years.

00:45:20:09 - 00:45:49:13
Unknown
At this point, we haven't heard from Cyanogen because it folded. But he's taking it to go after windows now, with a company called core A systems, which is essentially core is a Linux based desktop operating system with AI agents built into it from the core, which is, I don't know, I guess, a trend that we're going to see more and more of is this idea of why why bolt AI into your product afterwards?

00:45:49:13 - 00:46:09:11
Unknown
Why not just build it in from the core? It's kind of actually, to a certain degree, it's kind of like what the Google Book is, is promising is, hey, look, this is, a laptop OS with Gemini built in at its core. And just think of all the things you can do with a device like that. So it's kind of similar to what Kirt McMaster and Quora are promising here.

00:46:09:13 - 00:46:47:05
Unknown
So the idea is that those agents, because they're in embedded into the operating system at the core, they can work across the apps more seamlessly, access all the files, keep all that context in between the tasks that it runs. It can, you know, wall off the workspace for each of those runs. All that kind of stuff, or combine the context and, yeah, it runs locally when it can, and then it can reach out to cloud models when it needs heavier lifting, which I think is another trend that we're going to see a lot more of as we go forward.

00:46:47:07 - 00:47:14:18
Unknown
So it's an interesting idea. Do we do we need a laptop OS like that or a computing OS like that? It's hard for me to visualize exactly what it is, but I do think it makes sense that if we think that AI is going to utterly make us rethink applications, who needs an application to tell it? I want to do this and it goes and does it the same, I think, to be true of of an operating system, that it doesn't matter what it is, as long as it works with all these eyes and does what you wanted to do fun.

00:47:16:28 - 00:47:43:03
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, it really does call into question this, this continual question around like what an app is designed for. Human app isn't necessarily designed for agent. An agent can use an app. Right. But but if an agent is the next kind of phase of computing of how we use our devices, then why not build around the agent instead of around the human?

00:47:43:05 - 00:48:02:03
Unknown
Although I can hear a lot of people screaming right now, don't do that. Don't not build it for me. Just goes counter to what we've been used. I talked to a news executive, lunch yesterday, and I said, there's going to be a parallel web that's built for for AI and agents, and you as a publisher should should build your presence on that.

00:48:02:24 - 00:48:27:15
Unknown
How is that received. They didn't get it. They were like no. Still very resistant. Yeah. Still feels like it's way out there. But I don't know that it is. It feels like it's coming faster and faster. There. So this is going to launch in next year at some point free to use. The money would come from, subscriptions, bundling those AI models and agent services.

00:48:27:17 - 00:48:54:23
Unknown
And again, the idea here is that it wouldn't be this wouldn't be a computing platform based on one singular AI model. This would be a computer platform that's designed to reach out to the right model for the right task, or the ones that you've set up, and then to know when to use that one versus this one. I think there it it's it's important for the if it's going to do that for it and have a real strong sense of that.

00:48:54:23 - 00:49:25:28
Unknown
Because a lot of users, although a lot of the users of this are probably going to be pretty nerdy and an AI focused and AI driven, but a lot of people aren't going to know why you use that versus this for this or that task. Yep. Yeah. It's kind of like you've always talked about having a really easy to install, capability, like like installing an app, but for, for AI models, for the people that just don't know, you know, right now the hardware requires too big AMD is the new box to compete with the spark.

00:49:25:28 - 00:49:47:18
Unknown
That's what that's $1,000 cheaper. It's 3999. Same kind of size, same concept, but that's still expensive. And I think what's going to happen is, that the Suleyman was talking about, the training of apps is so inefficient, has such redundant data that that's going to get boiled down and it's going to make much smaller, models.

00:49:47:21 - 00:50:12:20
Unknown
And then those models are going to be able to run on different hardware, and then I see something that's game changing. Yeah. Very interesting. Okay. You got to get to a parade man. I'm just realizing. Yes. Yeah. For those who, who aren't aware, here in the US it is veterans today at Veterans Day today which is a holiday for many people.

00:50:12:20 - 00:50:29:14
Unknown
There is a big Veterans Day, parade that happens every year in downtown Petaluma where I live. And, my older daughter asked me today, she said, hey, you want to go to the you want to go the parade with me? I was like, oh, my daughter's asking me to do something with her. Okay, let's do this. Priorities, man.

00:50:29:19 - 00:50:46:18
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. So I'm going to edit. I don't think there's anything really important in the, lightning round. You don't know? I think it goes great. I know, I know, but we got to. We do talk as fast as I do. Okay, take a break. We do have to take a break, and then we will come back and we will lightning fast rally through the lightning route.

00:50:46:20 - 00:50:49:02
Unknown
All right. Standby. We'll be back in a moment.

00:50:51:22 - 00:51:09:20
Unknown
All right. The lightning is lightning round you've ever seen. Although it doesn't have to be that crazy. I'm doing all right. I'm doing all right. Last week we talked about the data center back lash because of the election results. I think a day later or two days later, OpenAI basically said, hey, we've got a national community compact.

00:51:09:22 - 00:51:32:00
Unknown
We're going to pay full electricity and grid infrastructure cost. The data centers, that we own and operate. There's not going to be any more NDAs with public officials. Then we're going to publish our water, our power, our noise annoys and local hiring numbers per site. See, our data centers are friendly. Don't worry about it. We got you.

00:51:32:03 - 00:51:51:24
Unknown
Kind of. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, this is going to be the most lightning lightning round ever. I'm going to shut up. You don't need to. I'm always the one who extends it. It's okay. No, the Lightning round isn't meant to just be. Here's a bunch of headlines. It's all good if you got. If you got anything, throw it in there.

00:51:51:29 - 00:52:17:16
Unknown
I put this in because of my meeting with Mark Archer. Tencent, says it's new high for model. Puts it in the top tier of open models. It's, it gets a full release. Well, it got a full release a few days ago. Weights, system cards, are all coming in a few days. Artificial analysis is scoring it 35, which would be the second best from a Chinese lab behind moonshots.

00:52:17:16 - 00:52:41:09
Unknown
Kimi K3 what? Point one Pro, which is a 46. So top tier, not the absolute tier. Tencent is definitely, someone who we don't talk about a whole lot. So I wanted to, you know, give them a shout. Throw in the news. Mark, if you if you've got thoughts on, on, Tencent and their I send us a message on discord and I'll include it next time.

00:52:41:16 - 00:53:13:05
Unknown
That's something we can do. I do think this is super smart. This is Reddit is is turning its, conversations into product reviews called Reddit reviews is rolling out to all US users. Throughout its mobile and web properties basically organizes conversations about products into what people are saying about those products because, I mean, we talked about it plenty of times on this show that Reddit is such a valuable resource of information for how people talk about everything.

00:53:13:08 - 00:53:32:15
Unknown
And one big reason that people go to Reddit is because it's a great place to find how people feel about their experience with certain products and everything, but you kind of got to go searching. And so this is a this is Reddit solution to say, hey, we've got all this valuable information out there about how people use and what they think about these products.

00:53:32:21 - 00:53:54:03
Unknown
Why don't we give them a more synthesized offering of what those reviews actually say on the site? And, yeah, it seems like a pretty valuable resource to me. Yeah. I'm curious what Redditors will say because they've been, this remediated here from having folks. It's like a little mini media empire where folks are going to read the summary of what they all have to say together, rather than their individual opinions.

00:53:54:11 - 00:54:15:22
Unknown
It may be more efficient for the reader. It's not a unwise thing to do. But what's the benefit to the people who bring that content to Reddit? We'll see what the reaction is. Well, yeah. Does it disincentivize people from going going deeper and going into the conversations and still continuing to share and, and, and everything about these things?

00:54:15:24 - 00:54:31:15
Unknown
I don't know, I kind of I kind of wonder if they're two different people because when I'm looking for a product and I go into Reddit to find the review, I'm not necessarily going there most of the time to participate. I just want to see the thing and move on, which is different from the people who are in these threads.

00:54:31:15 - 00:54:50:00
Unknown
Yeah, like there's two different thing about them. Use cases. Yes. So I think they're two different users potentially. Yeah I agree. Yeah. I will be curious to see though if it if it ruffles them because without those users right. It's nothing. Yeah true true. If this if this reduces that that feedback loop then that's no good for Reddit.

00:54:50:02 - 00:55:10:08
Unknown
Yep. But Reddit recognizes the value of its information for AI. And now it's kind of putting it to work for itself. And so that's a smart move. On Reddit, it's part Meta's muse agent on Apple Watch and Wear OS, so you can look down at your watch and see that cute little cuddly bear or whatever the heck that is smiling at you.

00:55:10:08 - 00:55:39:03
Unknown
And, fire off following your orders. Following your orders with a smile on its face, slurping your data with every last drop. And meta also released. What is it? Ember? Amuse. Ember is what it is. Its latest, cheapest model. $0.10 per million input tokens. It's built for kind of the grunt work of agents. So tool calls, routing, data extraction, synthesizing long documents, that sort of stuff.

00:55:39:03 - 00:55:59:29
Unknown
So kind of feature again makes it makes sense because I think a lot of that's got work can be done by lower level models. Oh for sure. Yeah. Separate that out I think people are going to kind of use those. So it's was completely agree. And that is the lightning fast lightning round we've had to date probably go to Jeff jarvis.com for everything that Jeff is yada yada yada yada yada.

00:55:59:29 - 00:56:25:10
Unknown
On the other break. Oh good Jeff Jarvis go there. He's he's awesome. Go to pod tune up. If you got a podcast or you're thinking about podcasting here I'll open it up. And you want to talk with someone who knows a lot about podcast. Hey, that's me pod tune up.com I inside dot show with our brand Lee brand new redesigned website courtesy of Gemini for carbon has everything you need to know about this show.

00:56:25:10 - 00:56:48:11
Unknown
Patreon.com slash AI inside show for everything you need to know about what we do here. We got our our daily podcast. Five days a week. I get a steady stream of free subscribers, and I'm wondering if they're coming in from the one free episode that we do every week on Friday. Now the trick is converting into a five day a week, you know, membership.

00:56:48:11 - 00:57:11:21
Unknown
So think about it. Patreon.com slash AI inside show. If you are an executive producer like Doctor Do, Jeffrey Marie Cheyney, radio Asheville, 1 or 3.7, Saint James Barnard, Derek, Jason cipher, Jason Brady, Anthony Downs, Mark Starr, aka my Coffee Buddy Carson, Smokey, Evan Musial. If you are one of them, then you get your name read out. Just like that.

00:57:11:21 - 00:57:37:03
Unknown
You also get, what do you get? A free t shirt, all sorts of things. So patrons, we really need our lungs and our deepest gratitude and appreciation and a huge thank you to, Daniel Croft for some video support behind the scenes. Normally Anthony Lemos, but he's out this week. Happy, Veterans Day. Anthony, who is a veteran and I will edit the show for Amos.

00:57:37:03 - 00:57:57:22
Unknown
So I'm going to get right to that. Right now. Thank you Jeff, it was a pleasure. I always is and we'll see you next time. Take care I inside. Take care everybody. Bye.