The $4 Trillion AI IPO Wave Is About to Break

00:00:00:07 - 00:00:29:05
Unknown
Coming up next, Jeff Jarvis and I dig into anthropic blowing past OpenAI to a $965 billion valuation. The same week, it dropped opus 4.80, while OpenAI passed 1 billion monthly active users. It's a crazy race going on. Also, Google's AI overviews getting an opt out for publishers starting in the EU. Microsoft burying us in seven new AI models that build and different pieces of hardware.

00:00:29:06 - 00:00:56:28
Unknown
Really interesting stuff there. And video. Trying to reinvent the PC with an ARM chip called RTX spark. And the very weird problem of companies beginning to ration AI because the bills, well, they're pretty expensive. That's coming up next on this episode of the AI Inside podcast.

00:00:57:01 - 00:01:17:20
Unknown
Hello everyone, and welcome to yet another episode of the AI Inside Podcast, the show where we take a look at the AI that is layered like a layer cake through the world of technology. I am one of your host, Jason Howell, joined as always by my friend and co-host Jeff Jeffrey Jarvis. Have you ever. Mother was mad at me.

00:01:17:24 - 00:01:41:26
Unknown
Yes, Jeffrey was your. She got in trouble. Mad at me when we had our wedding invitations printed and I said, Jeff Jarvis. She was outraged. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Oh, she was so appears to be. Should have said Jeffrey. So then. So then when you were born, I guess I never really considered it, but Jeff is a more casual version of of Jeffrey, like Jeffrey was.

00:01:41:27 - 00:02:02:00
Unknown
Was your birth certificate name? Yeah. It's like John and Jonathan. Whatever. Right? Yeah. And they thought that the other name was in the running was Timothy. They thought it'd be very funny that I'd be Tiny Tim. I'm six for quite not quite as big as you are, but, yeah, so I was and my byline is Jeff for years, and so I am.

00:02:02:00 - 00:02:21:15
Unknown
I'm just Jeff. Oh. Which is that. Oh, she called me Jeffrey a lot right then. Yeah. Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure. Well, we got today. Good Lord, we got news today. I was just going. We're going to go through it for everybody. But, my God, I can't even believe we have news from Microsoft. Yeah, I know, it's it's all over the the mask stuff.

00:02:21:18 - 00:02:49:02
Unknown
This is like we, we got all the big players on a their own part of the show real quick before we dive in, just want to thank all of you who have jumped onto the Patreon to check out the daily podcast. Whoa. What was that? That was me forgetting that I had muted the. Oh, I was like, is somebody you feed being projected through a pay on the other side or something?

00:02:49:02 - 00:03:11:15
Unknown
Sorry about that. Maybe that was the daily podcast playing because you can't pull yourself away from it. I get it, I get it. It's pretty awesome all the time. Yes, yes, I totally understand those of you on Patreon who are getting the daily podcast. Of course it is for patrons $5 tier and up. You know, it's turning into like anywhere from like 7 to 10, sometimes a little bit longer.

00:03:11:15 - 00:03:28:20
Unknown
12 minute daily podcast about the day's tech news in the world of AI. And it's just having a great time. So, patrons, thank you for sending me your feedback and letting me know what you think about it. If you're curious, everyone gets access to the Friday episode for free. Just go over to Patreon. Follow for free. You can get the information.

00:03:28:20 - 00:03:45:02
Unknown
I think you can also find the feed on just Apple Podcasts and Spotify. And then, you know, maybe that convinces you, hey, I want this five days a week. So there you go. I hope you enjoy it. I'm not going to linger too much on this, but Patreon.com AI Inside show and you support us when you do that, so thank you.

00:03:45:02 - 00:04:04:16
Unknown
But that's housekeeping. We got that out of the way. Why don't we start with anthropic? We've been starting a lot with anthropic lately, but that's just because I feel like every week it's not just one big piece of news. It's like boom, boom, boom. There was even anthropic in the Vatican, for God's sakes. They're everywhere. There, everywhere. Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

00:04:04:19 - 00:04:32:08
Unknown
Anthropic closed a $65 billion series H round, putting their valuation at $965 billion. That passes officially open AI's $852 billion valuation. They also disclosed a $47 billion monthly revenue run rate. Okay, lots of numbers, very expensive, very pricey. And I'm showing the wrong story, but that's okay. You don't need to know which story I'm supposed to be showing.

00:04:32:08 - 00:04:55:26
Unknown
We've got, like, 20 links tied to this story. Anthropic. Yeah. Kind of announcing that they've they've quietly know what is the word confidentially. Yeah. Confidentially. That's right. Right. Confidentially filed for their IPO. What does it mean when they say that they just because it's not confidential, they're telling us that they're doing it but is details are confidential. Is that that mean.

00:04:55:27 - 00:05:24:14
Unknown
Yeah. Which we'll have to we'll have to come out but it's just not yet okay. All right. So we'll get all that information. But but we have a sense of the value based on this most recent round. They're going to come out at $1 trillion. Crazy crazy crazy. And what amazes me here is I just putting the link after link after link, after the link in my spreadsheet that we have a huge rush on Wall Street capital.

00:05:24:16 - 00:05:50:13
Unknown
So anthropic we don't know exactly because the details aren't there, how much they're going to try to raise, and exactly what the valuation would be based on that valuation. It's worth mentioning Amazon's investment in anthropic is now equal to $8 billion. I'm sorry. Sorry. Their investment was $8 billion, right. It's now worth 74, $74 billion. Hey, that was a good bet.

00:05:50:14 - 00:06:10:26
Unknown
God, way to go. You can make a lot of mistakes. It covers up a lot of mistakes. Sales forces investment is now worth $5 billion, which is nothing to sneeze at. No, not when they. Well, no. Sorry. It's, Let's see here. What did they put in? $50 million. Really? 20, 23, $50 million? Nothing. That's how you play the game, folks.

00:06:10:27 - 00:06:42:10
Unknown
Yeah. So so that's the anthropic circle. All right. We then have, OpenAI, we know is going to go public, and it appears that anthropic will beat them to the punch, which also means they beat them to capital that looking for a home. They you know how much can can be absorbed. Yeah. That was one question that I had is, you know, when you've got and you're kind of alluding to this and building up to this, but when you got anthropic you've got OpenAI, you've you've got space, you've got all these things.

00:06:42:10 - 00:06:59:26
Unknown
They're all kind of rushing to get. It feels like we were talking to pre-show. It feels like a frenzied, like a frenetic quality of like, okay, well, we got to get there first, because if you're first, then anyone who's who's been waiting for one of these things to pop finally has a home to to place their bets on.

00:06:59:27 - 00:07:22:13
Unknown
Right? And, you know, you fear there's going to be some fatigue from frenzy to fatigue later. And so if you're the fourth IPO, okay, I'm already out. And the bump isn't as big. But this first one is a lot of pent up demand. So fascinating. Into this comes surprise, surprise surprise. Google. Google which has tons of cash on hand.

00:07:22:15 - 00:07:47:02
Unknown
They're going to issue $80 billion worth of stock to get more money in. Now Google has more more than double that in cash on hand. It has huge credit. We're not going to loan money to Google, but they're now going to go to the public market to get $80 billion. And of that, $10 billion is going to Berkshire Hathaway, which famously was never about investing in tech companies.

00:07:47:02 - 00:08:15:12
Unknown
So that's a huge change there with its new management. And so Google is in the public markets competing now with anthropic OpenAI and space sex space. So there's just a ton of interesting issues there. Meanwhile, SpaceX came out and they said that they're an unusually usually a company before their roadshow gives a range. We couldn't be this much.

00:08:15:12 - 00:08:43:27
Unknown
It could be that much. The ego of Moscow said, it's going to be this much by an account by Reuters says maybe this could change, but that they're supposedly going to go for raising $75 billion, valuing the company at $1.75 trillion trillion, which just is when you think about the actual value of what it creates. Okay. So it has government contracts to make rockets, which in itself is not otherwise profitable.

00:08:44:00 - 00:09:09:24
Unknown
It does have communication in satellite, which is profitable. That's the main profitable part of the company. It has a car company that is ridiculed at many turns, and it loses sales because people don't like the creator and has tons and tons and tons of new competitors. Whenever China comes into this market, Tesla's dead. Dead as will be. Did you?

00:09:09:26 - 00:09:39:27
Unknown
Speaking of, did you see the news from BYD? No. I mean, I mean, when talking about China and competitors with Tesla, which is a total tangent, I realized. But I thought this news was interesting, that BYD in China is assuming all risk, all responsibility for any of their autopilot anything. So if you buy your car from them for the first year that you have it, if you're running their autopilot, whatever they call it and it gets into an accident, they assume all risk.

00:09:39:27 - 00:10:05:22
Unknown
They pay for everything. You're you're you're finance. You know, it doesn't require extra insurance. They're essentially saying we are responsible, not you, when things happen. And I wonder how that's going to impact other companies like Tesla. Yeah. So I'm addicted. On TikTok I watch people showing off these Chinese cars, and it is an AI topic because there's going to be more and more AI hardware and software in these cars, obviously, to do just what you just said for sure.

00:10:05:24 - 00:10:26:13
Unknown
So so China, who's responsible? You know, we talk about the responsibility of people running agents. And my my belief has has been, you know, in recent months that I think if, if we are the executioner, if we are the ones saying, yes, do this thing for me, then I believe that I'm kind of responsible for that choice. And, you know, maybe that's shifting.

00:10:26:13 - 00:10:46:27
Unknown
Maybe that responsibility does fall on the companies according to bide. It does. But anyways, that's a tangent. Sorry. And those those Chinese cars have a lot more sensors than a Tesla has, which makes me more comfortable as well. That's true. Yeah. So there's this huge, huge rush for capital markets. If you if you let's say that out, that space will go.

00:10:46:28 - 00:11:18:04
Unknown
They're going to go for 75 billion. Google for 80 billion. Let's say that anthropic is going for some something in that line. And then open AI. So let's say you have four companies going for about 75 billion each in the public markets. That's insane. That's insane. And very suddenly to write like some of the most hyped private companies on earth, hitting the public markets in this short window all very suddenly.

00:11:18:10 - 00:11:39:19
Unknown
Yeah. To your to your point, like, can the stock market, like can it stomach or can it swallow all of that happening at the same time. Then you got yeah, I'm and I'm not a I don't normally think about in terms of stock market anything. I'm not an investor or anything like that. So sometimes these things are totally me guessing and everything.

00:11:39:19 - 00:12:05:19
Unknown
But what does that also do to like mutual funds where because they're going to have to readjust around any index fund. Well, so there's interesting stuff here. Index. These things will go right into the Nasdaq and down indices. So they will become an influence on the entire market. And there'll be elephants in the in the in the dog show.

00:12:05:19 - 00:12:25:00
Unknown
I don't know that was going over there. Whatever elephants of the dog show that works clump clump I think it kind of works. Yeah. Maybe an elephant dressed up to be a dog so that it makes sense. It's there. But, so they're going to be huge a B if you have an, if you have an index fund.

00:12:25:02 - 00:12:42:12
Unknown
Now, some index funds will only put you in if you're profitable and these companies aren't yet profitable, but there's going to be kind of exceptions made because they're going to be such an important part. So yes, that's going to have an impact in turn on our 401 case and a lot more and make them more vulnerable to where they go.

00:12:42:14 - 00:13:17:28
Unknown
Just for perspective here, I just looked up the biggest IPOs by capital raised. Saudi Aramco number one raised 25.6 billion in 2019 Alibaba in 2014 21.8 billion. SoftBank in 2018 21.3 billion. Visa in 2008 17.9 billion. So you have what what we know of these so far are triple the largest raises before craziness. It absolutely is including Google's wacky, absolutely wacky.

00:13:17:28 - 00:13:41:07
Unknown
So, you know, and the word is said that the economy is actually the US economy is not in that greater shape, but it looks like it's a good shape because it's completely held up by AI, by the frenzy and by the construction and by this optimism that goes around. And it does kind of I don't know if this week I thought my head was swimming.

00:13:41:07 - 00:14:02:03
Unknown
Jason. Yeah. And you're doing this every day now. It's just this. And we'll get to Microsoft in a few minutes. It's like, wow. It's just there's constant, constant stuff coming out about AI, but it's amazing. Yeah, yeah yeah it is. Well, and I wonder around kind of this fever pitch that we're that we're kind of witnessing here around these IPOs and everything.

00:14:02:03 - 00:14:29:24
Unknown
If all of this happening simultaneously is like, is it a signal of some sort of strength of this economy slash, you know, AI market, or is it actually a signal of, of the opposite? Like, you know, you don't hear as much about bubble right now as we did a couple of months ago. But gosh, could, you know, could could this fail miserably when these, you know.

00:14:29:25 - 00:15:01:14
Unknown
And so how long does that take? You know, again, to look at the scale of the initial valuation of the companies in IPOs. Alibaba in 2014 was valued at $169 billion. Meta in 2012 $81 billion Uber 2019 $75 billion. The total valuation of Uber was what they're asking for just to get cash out. So these companies are valued at $1 trillion each as IPOs.

00:15:01:16 - 00:15:24:12
Unknown
Oh. Yeah. Scary. Yeah. And they're not profitable in this field yet. Now granted you know Amazon for years to decide to be profitable. Well Amazon Auto anthropic is supposed to be now. But they're going to have to keep on investing like crazy. That's the point of Google's thing is that though we have as much money as God, we're going to need more.

00:15:24:12 - 00:15:41:01
Unknown
And the fact that they're, they're diluting their stock by selling more stock to get more cash, to build more stuff, says that every one of these companies is going to keep investing, especially if they believe that the only way to get to their goal and stay ahead of everybody else is by super scaling. So that means super spending.

00:15:41:03 - 00:16:04:20
Unknown
Yes, indeed it does. Which they are very, apparently very good at. Yeah, yeah. Craziness. So yeah, super unrelated, but I want to make sure that, that it makes its way in here, by the way, because this was today. And when we're talking about all these big players and big numbers and everything, ChatGPT, by the way, announced that they hit 1 billion monthly active users.

00:16:04:20 - 00:16:29:03
Unknown
That's a record in and of itself as well. So and what's interesting to me about that is you've got ChatGPT hitting 1 billion monthly active users. You've got this groundswell of seeming like sudden attention going to clod. It's easy to think that Clod and ChatGPT are playing in the same ballpark, but I think Claude's monthly active users, something like 65 million compared to ChatGPT is 1 billion or something like that.

00:16:29:03 - 00:16:46:04
Unknown
So, I mean, I was trying to look ChatGPT really is like the Kleenex of AI right now, you know what I mean? It still is. Exactly. Well, well, I can't find my notes, but I don't know what Google said. There were 900 million. Google's something like 900 million, but actually pretty close. Everybody says, well, every time you search, you're a user of Gemini.

00:16:46:04 - 00:17:05:08
Unknown
Every time you do some apps, you're a user of Gemini. So they think Google Sheets GP is just chat. GPT yeah, I don't think that's cheating. I think if if ChatGPT had access to that and they'd call it, they would to you know, it's just context. That's all it is. It's baking your product, especially now as Gemini is going to be at the heart of everything Google does.

00:17:05:08 - 00:17:25:24
Unknown
Yeah. No, I think it's yeah, absolutely. Anyways, I thought that was an interesting aside. Back to anthropic. It wasn't just, you know, their big the big march to an IPO and all the big numbers that have been announced and everything. This was a week where they launched a new product, a new point update to opus. So opus 4.8 out.

00:17:25:26 - 00:17:49:25
Unknown
I've certainly played around with it in the past week. They are branding it as the most honest model yet, as we continue to speak about these things in human terms, they say it's more likely to flag its own uncertainty and less likely to make claims that it can't actually back up. I mean, I don't know whether that's true or not.

00:17:49:26 - 00:18:09:24
Unknown
I you know, as I've used it, it's felt very similar to me in my interactions, but I haven't noticed anything to counter what they're saying here. But they say, you know, it's doing better in agent coding. It has these new effort controls. So there's a little effort thing where you can say, put more effort into this answer versus less.

00:18:09:24 - 00:18:29:12
Unknown
And you can start to kind of scale how much, I guess, how much time it spends on on this, I don't know. The controls are getting starting to get a little confusing. And I wonder if that's by like, yes, that gives you more control as a user, but it also kind of makes it easier to overspend on tokens when you don't need to.

00:18:29:13 - 00:18:49:19
Unknown
You know what I mean? Putting if you got it on full auto, at least it's kind of. Maybe it's making the determination of what you actually need. And when we are just a regular user and we think we know we might just be throwing them money in the process. But anyways, I don't know if you've used that at all, but it's, it's, you know, it's a point update.

00:18:49:21 - 00:19:13:07
Unknown
It is interesting that they release 4.7 a month ago and now they're already out with 4.8. Yeah. It's interesting. And I just put up a post by the way, about about my Yann LeCun and Jensen Walden's communicators, and talk about the lessons they teach when they communicate. And one is Jenson. Wong did a whole shtick in one of his keynotes about the token economy.

00:19:13:09 - 00:19:42:16
Unknown
And it makes sense today, right? That's the actual cost. And it's a quantifiable cost to these places that you're going to be charged for tokens. But in the long run, users aren't going to think in tokens. They're going to think in tasks. Yeah, yeah, that's true. And it's hard, I think I think they're going to find it's hard for a consumer, for a user, but not corporate, not technical, but the rest of us to think about tokens as a way because it's, you know, if you go back to the early days of the internet, it was it was on a clock.

00:19:42:19 - 00:20:01:01
Unknown
Yeah. And a guy named Tom Evelyn changed all that at AT&T World Net when he went to flat rate pricing, 1995 a month for the internet. And it used to be that you. Oh, are you a kid still on that internet thing every minute? Yeah. You know, we've only got 100 minutes, right? Right. Like long distance call.

00:20:01:01 - 00:20:38:21
Unknown
No. Right. All that right disappeared and usage went up. I think the same thing in the long run is going to be true of AI, where it's going to be difficult for the AI companies to figure out how to gate the tasks against their cost versus what we think on our end as users. Yeah, well, I know in working with my wife on kind of introducing to her what I, what I use Claude for and how I interact with it and everything, it's really easy for me to take certain things for granted, because I've just got a lot of experience with it now versus someone like her that is learning, you know, and like I'm

00:20:38:21 - 00:21:02:04
Unknown
using it and I'm like, you know, this probably isn't the task for opus. You probably want to switch this to sonnet because sonnet is going to save you some tokens. You're going to burn through your credits and trying to like, explain to her the difference why you choose one versus the other. To a certain degree, it's kind of a felt sense, like you can kind of explain it, but not so that it's so perfectly crystal clear to her that she immediately knows the difference between the two.

00:21:02:06 - 00:21:22:13
Unknown
She's still just totally guessing. And yeah, that could be costly, you know, how do you communicate that to the everyday user as your product becomes used by more everyday users and not just nerds that love AI, you know? Yeah. Is it more expensive to explain the theory of relativity or free will to me, right? Yeah. Like how do you know?

00:21:22:14 - 00:21:38:24
Unknown
How do you know? I'm not really in control of that then? Yeah. Yes. You're right. So. So Claude puts in a lot more controls, but that only makes it more confusing. It. Yeah, it certainly does. And I've been trying to kind of figure out my way through that too. And I certainly don't have it nailed with the effort.

00:21:38:24 - 00:22:04:20
Unknown
I'm totally guessing right now. But you know, maybe it'll make more sense over time. But then we have we're still talking to anthropic here. We still have mythos the the gift that keeps on giving week after week after week. The news this week on mythos is that in is expanding it to, or at least expanding access to it to 150 additional organizations, 15 countries covered.

00:22:04:21 - 00:22:14:10
Unknown
We're talking about, you know, organizations that are very infrastructural, infrastructural.

00:22:14:13 - 00:22:39:04
Unknown
I don't know, important power, water, health care, communications, hardware, all those kinds of things that anthropic says. You know, it's really important for these these facets, these organizations, to have access to this so that they can batten down their hatches ahead of the public release of something like this. And they also mentioned, you know, other models, other makers are making models similar to what this is going to be capable of.

00:22:39:06 - 00:23:01:24
Unknown
So this isn't just, you know, protecting against the power of mythos for all. Yep. So there we go. And they're also hinting at a possible near future moment when the model is released on a wider scale to the public. Have to imagine that that wider release isn't quite as capable as what they're talking, what they continue to talk about with this model.

00:23:01:24 - 00:23:26:16
Unknown
But yeah, it seems like we're getting closer and closer to that. Who knows when that's actually going to happen? A lot of a lot of companies, lots of organizations want access to it, though. They keep hearing about it. They're like, oh, we need that. And then I guess we can shift away from anthropic for a bit, because this was news that hit this morning, checking in on Google's AI overviews.

00:23:26:19 - 00:23:52:03
Unknown
Things appear to be changing, starting in the EU. And I think broadening out from there is my understanding. But Google's going to let websites opt out of its AI search results. That goes for AI overviews. That goes for AI mode. There's going to be a toggle inside of Search Console, where the site owner can say specifically, no, don't use my pages to build your answers, your AI driven answers.

00:23:52:03 - 00:24:17:16
Unknown
And yeah, given publishers, I guess the the ability to turn off the spigot, I can imagine that I already have a sense of how you feel about this, which is you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. Something along those lines might as well drink a cup of hemlock. Yeah, the way people are going to discover information and discover websites and media is going to be through AI, and you cut yourself off from that.

00:24:17:16 - 00:24:35:04
Unknown
You cut yourself off from the public. Yeah. God bless. Fine. And then you also cut yourself off from complaining about it and being able to sue them and and lobby against them. So Google saying, fine, if you want to say same as robots.txt, you don't want to be there. Don't be there. That's up to you. But it's suicide.

00:24:35:06 - 00:24:58:03
Unknown
It's absolutely suicide. It's ridiculous. Meanwhile, there's a whole bunch of publishers, mainly in Europe, large ones, guardian feet and so on that are trying to gang together to be a negotiating arm, which the, the tech companies aren't crazy about in the one hand, but on the other hand, if they're smart enough to know that they need to be found there.

00:24:58:03 - 00:25:28:01
Unknown
And if you can come up with some general rules about how this operates. Okay, good. I'm all for that. But this is just suicide. Well, there is a lot of, you know, there is a growing sense of resentment from the publishers out there about this. They, you know, I agree with you. And at the same time, I appreciate that they have they at least have a voice in it to be able to say, you know what?

00:25:28:03 - 00:25:51:07
Unknown
I at least they should have the ability to choose their demise, I suppose. I don't know, like, I totally agree with you, and I'm happy that they that they have the ability to at least determine their fate. You know what I mean? So, you know, give them the controls, give them, give them a bit of control with the keys, give them their robots.txt and let them choose.

00:25:51:12 - 00:26:12:10
Unknown
I think that that's going to be a smart move for them long term. Not necessarily like you said. You know, in this world is increasing world where AI touches everything. And it's kind of hard to put that genie back in the bottle. You probably want to be in all those places versus not. Yeah. So in this of all this is from a few days ago.

00:26:12:13 - 00:26:38:04
Unknown
I got it from the Google News initiative. They've made some changes. They will now include preferred sources in AI search. They say that people have already selected more than 345,000 unique sources to prefer in search. So if the user asks for you and you're not there, you're going to that's that's a cost to you. They're introducing a new experience, an AI search that surfaces a prominent carousel of links for developing stories.

00:26:38:04 - 00:27:00:13
Unknown
They're trying to increase the number of links they have, which is good. And if you have a preferred source, that'll be highlighted there. And then to highlight primary reporters reporting, they're expanding the highly cited labels to more results. And I think you're going to see more and more that they will do a better job of linking in AI search.

00:27:00:15 - 00:27:10:26
Unknown
Now, whether people follow those links, this is the same argument we had about search in general. Oh my God, they know what they need to know and they're not going to link to my story. Well, maybe they don't need to go to your story. Maybe they just want to find out the score of the next game. That's it.

00:27:10:27 - 00:27:43:16
Unknown
Right? You know, and the fact that you're going to blather on them for 80 paragraphs about the game, maybe they don't need that, but that's my business. Yep. That's what I do. Yes, everything is is changing as we know. Interesting. Yeah. And also interesting that that Google is, you know, giving this control after a very long time of saying it doesn't it doesn't matter like, like that, that AI search isn't impacting page views, which I don't know that I agree.

00:27:43:18 - 00:28:02:12
Unknown
I it kind of seems like all the publishers and the people that I talked to in the publishing industry are saying, oh, are you kidding me? It absolutely does. But okay, so now you've got controls. But what I've been arguing for a decade or more is we have to get the fact that we're not past page views at this point is ridiculous.

00:28:02:13 - 00:28:26:10
Unknown
Yeah, you have to build a valued relationship with someone so that they come to you on your own accord for because they trust you, because they find value in you. That's the basis of all your subscription business. And if you think that in general, discovery will come through these kinds of click through and then you throw a paywall in front of their eyes and you don't give them anything, then what do you think is going to happen?

00:28:26:18 - 00:28:52:06
Unknown
So we have to get past page views. Two relationships. Yeah. Well said, well said. Well, speaking of relationships, we have a relationship with all of you who support us on Patreon anyways. Actually all of you, thank you for watching and listening, whether you're a patron or not. But on a deeper level, we've got a lot of people who support us at Patreon.com Inside Show, and we have a few new patrons who have come through the door.

00:28:52:12 - 00:29:16:10
Unknown
Thank you. Keith Steiner thank you, Mike Reiser. Just a couple of folks who have have come over to Patreon and supported on a deeper level, getting access now to our the daily version of of the podcast. The day that I look at you like that with, you know, because that's apparently the first frame of the video and I don't, I don't take the time to curate anything.

00:29:16:10 - 00:29:34:25
Unknown
So what you get are these all these awkward shots of me looking very weird on the first frame, like this one, I look disgusted. This one, I look very happy. You just never know what you're going to get. So there you go. Patreon.com AI Insight Show. Thank you to our new patrons and everyone who supports us each and every week.

00:29:34:25 - 00:29:49:09
Unknown
We couldn't do it without you. We're going to take a break. And then you've mentioned Microsoft. We're going to talk all about Microsoft and Nvidia. It's just it's a greatest hits episode. And we'll we got a lot to discuss after this break.

00:29:49:11 - 00:30:10:27
Unknown
All right. This is the week of Build Build 2026 Microsoft's developer conference. I find it interesting to see because, you know, just a couple of weeks ago it was Google I o and we kind of, you know, get a sense of how Google thinks of their developer conference and specifically how they think about their keynote and their keynote is not so developer a developer anymore.

00:30:10:28 - 00:30:32:14
Unknown
It's really about kind of broad company vision and product and stuff. And then you got Microsoft and you know, it's kind of same same, but different. I feel like Microsoft really does focus a lot more on the developers when they do their keynotes and kind of targeting, you know, their products to developers. But they had some, some definite announcements in the AI world.

00:30:32:16 - 00:30:57:09
Unknown
Yes, they had some new models that they announced. The mi mi thinking won their first real reasoning model, and Microsoft did make a point of saying that it was trained from the ground up on clean data, that is, without distilling from anyone else's model. So they went out of their way to say that. So that's interesting. But it was the work of Suleiman and also interesting.

00:30:57:10 - 00:31:25:04
Unknown
This is their declaration of independence from open AI, right? Yes. Microsoft got going with open AI, troubled marriage. They figured out the divorce and Microsoft's on its own and making progress. Yes, absolutely. Kind of showing they they're on their own two feet when it comes to AI. Also they announced Project Celera which is this is interesting. This is an Android based platform.

00:31:25:04 - 00:31:48:22
Unknown
We talked about a Microsoft product on Android Faithful last night. It was it doesn't happen very often. Android based platform for what they're calling agent first hardware devices. So the idea being this is hardware that runs AI agents instead of running apps. And yeah, they've got a few concepts a few pilots planned. So, you know, you'd be finding these products.

00:31:48:22 - 00:32:16:04
Unknown
There's like a desktop version. There's also this like key card with a camera, I don't know, these things are pretty funky and weird looking, but apparently you're going to be able to find some of these devices. Best Buy and Target. Very intriguing. Interesting concept. It's like the hardware ification of agents in the home or in the business. And yeah, hardware agents.

00:32:16:06 - 00:32:34:05
Unknown
I don't know why I haven't really considered the fact that when I think of agents, I think of software and running invisibly, I don't think of hardware devices. But yet here we are, makes it tangible. And we've talked often on the show trying to figure out what is the hardware play in AI. Yeah, and I don't think we've had a successful answer to that.

00:32:34:11 - 00:33:00:09
Unknown
Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see what they play with here. And at the same time, we know that OpenAI is designing something with Johnny. I've we know that Google has various things happening in this field. So so people are desperately trying to get AI into more surfaces for AI into our lives. Now what I. The second thing I don't fully understand here is agent VPP.

00:33:00:11 - 00:33:20:04
Unknown
Do you use an agent that someone else has created? Ergo, it strikes me it's an app. Do you have to create your own agent? Okay, but that may be too much work. You're telling it what to do, but then you got to think through. But do this. But don't do that. But make sure you do this. You know, I'm not sure how people you're basically making your own app because you're still an app.

00:33:20:05 - 00:33:45:06
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, you're setting the rules. But agents are the hot things now. So yeah, very interesting. I'm glad they're playing with it. I think and I love gadgets. So you know there's been nothing so exciting about gadgets now. Meanwhile Microsoft stock today is down 3.5%. But okay. But that's also you know sell on the news doesn't necessarily say what's going on but.

00:33:45:09 - 00:34:15:14
Unknown
Right. They weren't necessarily screaming in the market. Oh good. I can't wait to get my AI agent employee badge. Yeah. That is that is a very interesting like the desktop concept that we're showing in the video version. If you're watching this makes far more sense. It's a form factor that we're used to seeing technology embedded inside of. We've seen a, you know, a million of these maybe not done in the way that Microsoft is talking about here.

00:34:15:14 - 00:34:41:09
Unknown
But the the badge, the agent driven badge or the the badge with extra agent capabilities. I still don't know if I completely understand where that thinking came from, that that ended up being one of two of these major platform devices. Very interesting. It seems like something you'd not not what's the what's the not succession. What's the other show where they're working in the creepy office and.

00:34:41:10 - 00:35:04:03
Unknown
Oh, what is that, the. Yeah. Why am I so bad when someone says, oh, what is the name of the thing? And I know the second Intel. Yeah. It's not succession. It's. They're all down in the. They got the multiple. I don't even know it's there and it's not there at the same time. Someone in chat will will let us know.

00:35:04:03 - 00:35:30:21
Unknown
Let us know. It's a very good show. Several severance. There we go. Not me. Google reared show filmed in Holmdel Bell Labs. Okay, it was actually filmed. And yeah, in the Bell Labs. The the since redeveloped Bell Labs in Holmdel. There's two major facilities. One of them, you know, I just kind of assumed it was like a set that they built or something like some of it is.

00:35:30:21 - 00:35:58:08
Unknown
But but but the the whole lobby thing, that's that's Holmdel. Oh, that's so interesting. Interesting. Well that's Celera. And then there was also let's see here, which is thank you for giving us the the update on severance a minute late, but I knew one of you would come through MSK, which is an operating system and an OS level sandbox for AI agents.

00:35:58:08 - 00:36:24:23
Unknown
Basically, you know, a place inside of the OS where those agents could do their thing without touching everything else. Microsoft saying OpenAI and Nvidia already on board using it. So there's that more more agent tree. But sandboxing the agents, I suppose. And this next thing, actually, I don't know if you caught the correlation, but I'm sure you did.

00:36:24:26 - 00:36:52:09
Unknown
Calls back to our interview with Charles Lamanna from office 365 from late last year, which is something called Microsoft Scout. It's an always on enterprise agent, shows up as a contact inside of Microsoft Teams, so you can just message it like you'd message maybe a colleague or whatever, and it handles scheduling. It handles tasks in the background, essentially appears in the in the teams tools you're using as an employee.

00:36:52:09 - 00:37:21:00
Unknown
But but noted to be an agent. So it's kind of like an agent with a with a worker persona, I guess. And this sounds very much like Google's spark, right, that it's on agent kind of thing. That is, except with spark, you kind of have to go to spark to use it, you know what I mean? It's not appearing inside the tools you're using and collaborating in a collaborative sense.

00:37:21:06 - 00:37:41:28
Unknown
It spark you have to go to Gemini and turn on Spark Mode. And it's and it's basically a section of the Gemini chat experience, but it is a 24 over seven agent and which, by the way, I've played around with spark. I've used it for a couple of weeks now and had, I'd say mixed mixed experiences with it.

00:37:41:29 - 00:38:06:27
Unknown
It's interesting what it can do, but I've had it fail a lot of processes when I have it set on a schedule. So I open up to like check it out and it's like failed because and it doesn't really give me a lot of information as far as why it failed and everything. So maybe they're still still tweaking and getting it up to speed, but but yeah, I'd say this is a little different because it seems like it kind of appears alongside your, your human employees.

00:38:06:27 - 00:38:31:03
Unknown
So it really is the sort of thing where it's like, oh, that's, that's my friend Fred from, you know, accounting. And then that's my agent sitting next to him in the virtual table or whatever, taking notes or I don't know how that looks, but. Got it. Yeah. Kept moving us closer to the world where we collaborate with agents as if they are employees, basically.

00:38:31:05 - 00:38:52:11
Unknown
Yeah. Another thing that I thought about along this line, though, was, okay, so we're you know, Microsoft was kind of calling this out and saying, you know, this is your, you know, this is your dream assistant, your tireless assistant. It never logs off. It's always there, ready to work and do the work, you know, around the clock and everything.

00:38:52:11 - 00:39:26:10
Unknown
And I wonder, as we move further and further into the realm of or into the world of AI agents always being accessible, always being able to do these things, do that, rewrite business perspectives on how employees work subconsciously. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean. If they start to get used to this work, being able to be done 24 over seven around the clock, does that then change an impact and influence how they think about people who work for them as well?

00:39:26:11 - 00:39:43:24
Unknown
Like, are we kind of like setting ourselves up for an expectation down the line where where businesses are like, well, no, this is just how it's done 24 over seven. You got to be on it, man. You to not just our American, maybe, but I can't wait until the Germans react to that. Yeah. Oh, no. The clock. Don't email me.

00:39:44:02 - 00:40:14:08
Unknown
Oh, my. My agent stops to. In fairness to the agent, you don't get one, right? H of the agents. Think of the agents. Yeah, interesting. That was just a random thing. Well, my story that I think I put in there, it's ridiculous. But but I think especially this is very anthropic. But it's not just anthropic. They're hiring philosophers and sociologists and so on to worry about agent welfare.

00:40:14:10 - 00:40:31:05
Unknown
Yeah, I yeah, I'm kind of speechless on that. Yeah I don't know. Okay. There's probably more to that. But that on its surface it sounds pretty ridiculous to me. Okay. I mean.

00:40:31:08 - 00:41:23:09
Unknown
We should have paid so much attention to horses in Central Park. Yeah, yeah. We need to worry about their welfare first. Yeah. That's true. Interesting. Okay, then. Well, you know, it's like. Please and thank you. Do you say please and thank you to your to your chatbot? Yeah. Don't hurt its feelings in Vidya in on this world tour of all the big players with news this week and staying on the like hardware and platform theme especially we have in vedere working to kind of implant itself even further into the PC industry there at Computex and announced RTX spark, which is an ARM based chip based on TSMC's three nanometer process.

00:41:23:09 - 00:41:54:18
Unknown
It's a partnership with MediaTek, and it has some pretty excellent specs for something that you're going to have on your desk or inside of your laptop. It's a 20 core CPU, Blackwell GPU, 6144 Cuda cores, so 6144 Cuda cores, up to 128 gigs of memory capable of running 120 billion parameter AI models locally. So capable, you know, on your machine capable of running these really beefy and and chunky models.

00:41:54:21 - 00:42:23:02
Unknown
Nvidia, Microsoft both framing this as reinventing windows PCs for the age of personal AI. And yeah, I know you're a big fan of of of of the work that Nvidia is doing or at least its CEO in demonstrating it. But what do you think? Well, so doctor Android you'll know this what Google products what Google Google consumer products include tensor chips.

00:42:23:04 - 00:42:41:29
Unknown
Oh I mean the main ones that come to mind for me are there I mean primarily their phones. I'm trying to think, I don't know that they're I don't you know, their Chromebooks don't. And I don't think the new Google books do. I don't think they mention the Google book. I don't think so. So in essence really have a tablet.

00:42:42:00 - 00:42:59:09
Unknown
The tensor is Nvidia is is there is an AI chip. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. So in a sense, you know, our phones that you and I both use to have this. Nonetheless this is going to be hot. People are going to want. Yeah I think so. Now what use they put to it I don't know what.

00:42:59:09 - 00:43:23:10
Unknown
And we do think that a lot of this is going to be running things locally. Yeah. But but people are going to die for this. Yeah. Well and you have Microsoft, they announced that they have, you know, a machine, the surface or actually a couple of machines. They have a dev box, which is the surface RTX spark developer box, and then they've got the Surface Laptop Ultra.

00:43:23:12 - 00:43:50:14
Unknown
You know, so very powerful machines with this inside with Nvidia inside instead of Intel. Maybe it is. Yeah, I don't know, 30 plus laptops and ten desktops coming from Dell, HP, Asus, Lenovo, MSI and yeah and vedere just basically getting into the CPU market, going toe to toe with Intel, going toe to toe with AMD. And I think you're right.

00:43:50:14 - 00:44:11:21
Unknown
I think this will be a really big deal. Yeah, it's the right move at the right moment for Nvidia. Yeah. If you're in any technology company you're going to be dying to have it. I think the security of knowing you can run things locally matters. And just, just the, the macho power of it, you know, it's it's it's remember there show home improvement.

00:44:11:22 - 00:44:39:27
Unknown
More power. More power. Same thing. Yeah. What are you going to do with it? That's a different question. What would you do with it? My drill is faster than yours. It still just makes holes. But yeah, right. And then there's the DG station for windows. This is in video Nvidia saying it's putting a trillion parameter AI supercomputer on the desk in the enterprise.

00:44:39:29 - 00:45:08:29
Unknown
Yeah. So a lot of power hitting the desk going, you know, in in many ways going local. And yeah, that's that's news from Computex. I, I'm sure there was others, but those stood out. Was there anything else that you had in mind to call out? No. This is tangentially related a story that is not brand new, but a major homebuilder is going to put many data centers next to homes in suburban backyards.

00:45:08:29 - 00:45:26:12
Unknown
It's only going to be about new homes with this one builder, but it becomes a different way to imagine the data center, your whole neighborhood, your whole town is a data center in everybody's backyard, and it'll use your extra internet connectivity and your extra power, and you'll learn a little money from it in the long run. It's fascinating.

00:45:26:15 - 00:45:52:20
Unknown
Oh, boy. At a time where people are feeling like I'm. I'm detecting a lot of data center disdain. Data center disdain is is at a fever pitch right now. There's a lot of fatigue there related to AI. And I can imagine a lot of people, you know, Nim being this to to to no end to be like, wait a minute, what data centers now in our backyard?

00:45:52:20 - 00:46:29:08
Unknown
Are you kidding me? That's interesting. A company called span told CNBC can install 8000 of these units about six times faster and five times lower cost than 100 megawatt data center. So distributed. Yeah. So so keeping them keeping them cooled or whatever, maybe. Yeah. I wonder what the environmental like, you know, for the people who look at the data center thing from an environmental view, does this actually help if everybody if everybody's pitching in on the data center needs.

00:46:29:10 - 00:46:53:20
Unknown
Yeah. It's interesting what happens to your power grid locally. What happens to your internet access? I don't know, but it's kind of interesting. It is super interesting. So I imagine, you know, all those people, all those nerds who have Nvidia laptops, there's one. Can you can you spare your compute to a larger network? Can you spare your compute more?

00:46:53:20 - 00:46:59:17
Unknown
So can I have more compute, sir?

00:46:59:20 - 00:47:27:28
Unknown
Oh interesting stuff okay. So let's see here what what comes next? Oh, I thought this was interesting. A few stories that seemed to converge this week on, you know, the rising cost of, of AI and the specifically the rising cost of token maxing. Did we talk? God, I'm having a vague memory that maybe we talked already about the Amazon token maxing thing.

00:47:28:05 - 00:47:41:05
Unknown
I think we did. Yes. Yeah. Yeah okay. All right. So then some of this is kind of rehash or just kind of touching into it and that they killed. No, I think we talked about it a few weeks ago when people were trying to outdo each other with it. Oh, okay. But we didn't talk about them killing the thing.

00:47:41:06 - 00:48:17:18
Unknown
No. Okay. Because I knew that. I know that I talked about it on daily Tech news shows. So that's probably what I'm what I'm remembering. But yes, Amazon shut down its internal leaderboard, the one that we talked about a few weeks ago that was tracking employees AI tool usage because, as we discussed, employees were gaming the system. They were running these pointless tasks just to boost up their scores, which, you know, I mean, I think we said it at the time a complete waste of resources and time and probably not what Amazon was envisioning when they when they put out the the challenge itself.

00:48:17:23 - 00:48:51:28
Unknown
But then you've got Uber capping its employees to $1,500 per month in AI spending on their coding tools. So 15 $1,500 per month per tool, per user or per person, employee or whatever. And I think you included a story. Or maybe I did. I can't remember which one of us put this in here from Wall Street Journal. That is just kind of a broader piece that's looking at how corporate America is starting to ration AI, because the cost is skyrocketing.

00:48:51:28 - 00:49:21:00
Unknown
And yeah, I guess I'm just not at all surprised. But here we are. It didn't take long for the token maxing to to kind of come out the other end. You need token mining. Yeah. Yes. Right. Token mining. Token minimizing. But but at some point I remember just Wong saying in one of his keynotes, which I quote constantly, that, how much, how many tokens, the value of tokens they were giving employees to work on.

00:49:21:00 - 00:49:37:27
Unknown
And I can imagine the situation is if, in fact, the AI makes you a more efficient employee and lets you do more and produce more, and then you get throttled in the tokens that enable you to do that. So employees may not be happy about that. Well yeah. That's kind of what I thought about this Uber story.

00:49:37:27 - 00:49:58:24
Unknown
So you get $1,500 for the tool. You're encouraged to use the tool. But then you're working on something really important. And you know, as I mean, I'm sure you've run up against your, your limits on, on an account at some point and suddenly it's like, nope, you've got to wait three hours or whatever. But in this case, it's for the month, like you're doing work that needs that.

00:49:58:26 - 00:50:16:06
Unknown
What are you what are you going to do? You know, hand code like a. Am I going to pull out my like a monster, my quill and start to work? Right. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I'm sure Uber would be like, oh no, this is mission critical. Okay, we'll we'll give you an extra allowance or something, but it just seems to.

00:50:16:08 - 00:50:40:09
Unknown
That'll be a pain for managers. Okay. All right. Yeah. You know now they got to manage. Yeah. They got to manage how that executes or operates or whatever. Yeah. Interesting. Rationing AI software. Rationing software. Who knew? That's where we're at. I saw this story from 11 labs, and I thought of you, Jeff. And I'll tell you why. Because.

00:50:40:11 - 00:51:12:24
Unknown
And this kind of harkens back to the the bygone era of the early days of AI inside, which was only a couple of years ago, where we were talking about where you brought up a number of times markup for AI models. And 11 labs has this new dubbing V2 tool, which is an audio dubbing tool, and they're saying that basically it preserves the original speakers emotion, tone and pacing across more than 90 languages.

00:51:12:24 - 00:51:42:02
Unknown
So it works from the original audio. So I would read something or I would perform something or, or just speak and emote and whatever the case may be. And this would, instead of reading like a script, it would actually carry over how I said the things and maybe translate into different languages or whatever. But it would keep the emotion that's tied from the source into the destination.

00:51:42:02 - 00:52:01:05
Unknown
And that's just kind of made me think of, though, the whole markup, things you were on this week. This year I'm recording the audiobook for Hot Type, which is really hard work. Yeah, and so I've gone two days in 200 pages so far. I got another hundred pages to go, and I'm sitting in a little lunchroom in the studio where people do this.

00:52:01:05 - 00:52:21:00
Unknown
And so you have the engineers and the professional voices sitting there, and they were eating their their lunch, and they started talking about some of this stuff. And so I said, what do you all think of 11 labs? And I said, besides the moral questions, well, that's all there is, is the moral question. I said, I know, I know, I know, taking your jobs, I get it.

00:52:21:00 - 00:52:35:24
Unknown
But just I want to hear what you have to say about it technically. And and their view was you can stand 2 or 3 minutes of this dub stuff, but a whole book. No. Yeah, you lose it. I think that's true today, but I'm not sure. I think this stuff will get better and better. I think it'll get better and better.

00:52:35:24 - 00:52:53:08
Unknown
I think that's definitely true for me today, though, is that I can I can stand it in short bursts, but I couldn't do hours upon hours of it right now. And as I'm reading the book, recording the book, the poor engineer, because what happens is if you muff, which I'm up constantly, he even said he maybe he's just making me feel good.

00:52:53:08 - 00:53:15:05
Unknown
He said even in the pros they have to do three times the page, the muff. And I'm loving more than that. So you say the wrong word. They're following long word by word to make sure you're following the script, the text, and if there's a sound in the background, if you if you muffle a word, whatever, they back up and you get like a three word cue and then you just start picking up from there and that's how you record.

00:53:15:10 - 00:53:34:22
Unknown
So they hope by the time you're done they don't have to edit it. It's basically been edited live. That's how it works. But there are moments when I get very performative when I shout something or in this book, throughout the whole book, Mark Twain returns often, and I found myself doing the Mark Twain to Night voice right when I'm.

00:53:34:23 - 00:53:54:27
Unknown
What is that about him? I can't do it on command. Dance Jeff Jarvis dads because it has. When I'm quoting him, it has to have his, cadence in the writing. Let me say hold on a second.

00:53:54:29 - 00:54:17:00
Unknown
I'm just so curious. This is not something that I'm familiar with. So I would love to to know. And and if you can't, it's it's cool. It's all good. So this is this is Mark Twain writing in Sam Wheeler detective, describing a village newspaper that I say sounds very much like his brother. Oriens spelled Orion, but it's pronounced Orion's

00:54:17:03 - 00:54:17:11
Unknown
shitty

00:54:17:14 - 00:54:22:11
Unknown
little crappy little rag in Missouri.

00:54:22:14 - 00:54:48:12
Unknown
It was a wretchedly printed little sheet, being very vague and pale in spots, and another spot so caked with ink as to be hardly decipherable. The first column was occupied by original poetry of the sappy description. The next four were occupied by selected story, which was as sappy as the poetry. The remaining column of this first page was made up of short paragraphs of vapid, heartbreaking, infuriating rot entitled with and humor.

00:54:48:15 - 00:54:52:27
Unknown
That's kind of what that sounded like.

00:54:52:29 - 00:55:13:04
Unknown
And what does that have to do with Mark Twain? Just the writing. Well, there was a Holbrook was in a, that's probably what was kind of Missouri speak. Hal Holbrook did a one man show acting as Mark Twain, and it's revived. Often a guy comes out in a white suit with a with a white hair and a cigar.

00:55:13:04 - 00:55:37:12
Unknown
And that's how they talk. Okay. Got it. But it means nothing to use. You're going to. Why is he talking weird? No. This is all just an elaborate way for us to say, hey, by the way, you should check out Hot Type, soon to be on audiobook, read by Jeff Jarvis. Read a little bit differently than what you just.

00:55:37:20 - 00:56:05:10
Unknown
How much? Not much. Not much. Not the whole book like that. Just what I what I quote. Twain just just at that point, that part. All right. We are let's see here. We're going to take a that was it for that block right. Yes. That is okay. We're going to take a quick break. And when we come back we will talk about a few quick stories, including a robot that's going to clean your home for free if you choose to let it collect all of that valuable data.

00:56:05:10 - 00:56:20:22
Unknown
But real quick, just so you know, we do have a YouTube channel, YouTube. Just go to YouTube, search for AI Inside Show, which is pretty much the handle for this show in all places. AI Inside show you'll find it. You get all the video versions. You also get it on our website, but you know, subscribe, follow on YouTube.

00:56:20:22 - 00:56:28:16
Unknown
It helps the channel find more people, so we appreciate it. All right. Taking a break back in a moment with Speed round.

00:56:28:18 - 00:56:56:00
Unknown
Doodly do. Okay so we've got a few quick stories to throw your way. Starting with an AI startup called shift, which is apparently offering free home cleaning in New York City. To start, it's going to come to other cities down the line. But what happens here is a worker that is not employed directly by shift, by the way, they are like contracted into the shift universe.

00:56:56:00 - 00:57:21:17
Unknown
So that worker has the choice to to say, I don't want to clean that. Like that's that's gross. That's disgusting. I don't want to do that. Although shift wants to incentivize them to do that because they want all the edge cases. But what happens here is the worker comes in to do the cleaning. They're wearing a hat, a shift hat with a first person video camera kind of pointing down on all the action as they clean your, your house or your apartment or whatever.

00:57:21:17 - 00:57:50:20
Unknown
And that footage is captured and then shared to train household robots. Ultimately, the video, they say, is anonymized before it gets licensed out. So, you know, it's trade off. You get a free cleaning of your apartment in exchange for your apartment being training data for house cleaning robots. Yeah, it's pretty clever. Yeah. That's people. People. I remember the panic when wasn't Roomba, was it?

00:57:50:22 - 00:58:15:14
Unknown
Was it bought by Amazon? Oh that's right. Right. There was a panic that oh my god, the company is going to get to know your entire layout. Right okay. And what? So what? Yeah. Yeah. No. They're going to collect all sorts of information while they're there to. It's not just your layout. Just think of all the things that they're going to see and in anonymized eyes, they're going to be able to be.

00:58:15:17 - 00:58:33:28
Unknown
My God, it must mean you have a cat. Yeah, yeah, they're gonna see your cat toys. Look at my Instagram feed and see the cat too, you know. So what's the big deal? So is this worth it for one free cleaning. So there's this company that advertises all the time on cable, and you're probably so cool. You don't see commercials anymore, but I do.

00:58:34:00 - 00:58:55:14
Unknown
And and it's. I can't run the name of it. I don't really want to give. Basically, they have a Karen saying I fired my including people, and I brought this new service and I paid only $19 to clean my whole house. Well, that's the first time only. And then this company, I think, rips off both ends of the transaction, according to what I've read on Reddit and stuff.

00:58:55:17 - 00:59:17:13
Unknown
And it's awful. And so I feel for the workers in this case, because I don't know whether being paid per hour, they don't really work for me. No. No, I wouldn't do this. Yeah. No, I don't think I would do it either. I totally agree, you know, and it's and it's a little weird to be, you know, again, kind of training your replacement to a certain degree.

00:59:17:14 - 00:59:42:26
Unknown
It's kind of like you go, okay, you're learn all the things that I'm doing so that you can do it instead of me. Yeah. Probably not a not a great, great strategy for morale or anything like that. The math world having its its moment in a similar way that security world has been having its moment being overwhelmed by what AI can do in security.

00:59:42:28 - 01:00:19:06
Unknown
Now that's kind of coming to mathematics. 16 mathematicians published something called the lead in declaration of AI and mathematics, their warning about threats to accuracy, attribution, what they call mathematical insight. And on one hand, you know, this is a matter of AI that's solving problems that maybe humans couldn't, or at least doing it way faster. On the other hand, the people who live in this field are saying, you know, let's be careful about about this, you know, kind of similar to other facets of the industry.

01:00:19:06 - 01:00:42:10
Unknown
They're also complaining about that kind of overwhelming influx of reports that humans then have to sort through on the other side. So they're a little overwhelmed by the workload to verify what these models are supposedly solving. There you go. Yeah. It's interesting, even even math people who know a lot more than I do in life, and I could never do a single math problem, and I can't do it at all.

01:00:42:10 - 01:01:10:12
Unknown
And I got out of calculus in high school to my great detriment. Even. They are nervous. Even they're nervous. So yeah, I'm not sure what to do about it for them, but. Right. I don't know where you go with that, but yeah, kind of is what it is. 404 media reporting that hackers used Meta's own AI support chatbot to hijack high profile Instagram account.

01:01:10:12 - 01:01:32:20
Unknown
So basically what they did is they were able my understanding of this from from Daily tech news show. When I chatted with Tom about this, I can't I can't remember what this was. This was yeah, earlier this week was that the hackers used a VPN to spoof their location to basically say, oh, you know, to to match an account.

01:01:32:22 - 01:01:51:28
Unknown
So in other words, there's a lot of work that goes into this. They did that. Then they chatted with the chatbot to say, hey, I want to change my email to this thing, this other email address, which was theirs instead of the one it actually is the chat bot, for whatever reason, because of the location spoofing or whatever does that.

01:01:51:28 - 01:02:07:12
Unknown
And then they asked for an account password reset that is sent in with two factor coming via email is sent to the new email address than the old. Because when I first heard about this, I was like, oh what? So now we can't do two factor on email anymore. I was like, no, this has nothing to do with two factor in email.

01:02:07:12 - 01:02:36:18
Unknown
This has everything to do with meta just being not so careful when they set up the capabilities of this chat bot. So yeah. So anyways, it's been long since, you know, meta said they fixed it. It's not an issue anymore. But you know, this was a case where the AI agent had access to some support actions and someone was able to figure out how to get that access to turn into some sort of payload.

01:02:36:20 - 01:03:01:00
Unknown
Not surprised. Not that surprised by that. It's kind of like I heard an analogy over the weekend that that worked for me, which is, you know, when it comes to agents and not wanting agents to do more than you want them to do. It's kind of like having a car and telling someone, you can't drive my car if I don't give them the keys, they're probably not going to drive my car.

01:03:01:01 - 01:03:18:29
Unknown
If I give them my keys and then tell them, don't drive my car. Well, there's a possibility they might still drive my car. It might happen. It's probably not going to happen, but it might happen. So, you know, you just got to be careful who you get the keys to be sure that you, you know. And when you get the keys, know that there is no certainty there.

01:03:19:01 - 01:04:08:04
Unknown
So so so. Yeah. Meta. Take that. China's mini Max model launched called M3. They're claiming that it rivals Claude opus 4.7. You can't even see the article. So many pop ups on coding $0.12 per million input tokens. When you compare that to opus 4.7, that's around $5 for the same million tokens. So this is a lot cheaper and close to capable by comparison, and just kind of like indicative of of some, you know, more of what we're seeing from out of China as far as these Chinese labs and kind of their approach to these models, which is going back to the top of the show, makes a person ask, why are all these companies worth

01:04:08:04 - 01:04:31:23
Unknown
$1 trillion? Yeah, totally. It does. Yeah, it's a real solid question. Absolutely. Interesting. Keeps keeps happening. Keep seeing that. And then finally, a callback. If you remember the AI executive order or order that we talked about a few weeks ago, that was going to happen and then wasn't going to happen. Well, Trump signed a scaled back AI executive order.

01:04:31:23 - 01:04:53:20
Unknown
MarketWatch here says that many critics are calling it almost meaningless. It's focused on AI cybersecurity threats, but imposes a lot less scrutiny than the version that got scrapped a few weeks back. So and there's a shorter time frame. It used to be 90 days, now is 30 days. And that's supposed to be a big deal. But yeah. Yeah.

01:04:53:22 - 01:05:17:06
Unknown
And it's voluntary. Yeah. It's voluntary. It's voluntary. So, you know, some companies will choose to clear their models with them or not even clear share the models with them in some. Yeah. They certainly won't have to. They won't be compelled to know it was. And that is the week in AI on AI inside. I'm exhausted. How about you?

01:05:17:10 - 01:05:33:18
Unknown
Yeah. Oh, boy. Tell me about it. You know, it's so much. But yet it's also so very exciting. Just think of all the things we didn't talk about because these were the major stories. There's so much more. You know, we'll just have to talk about it next week. Thank you so much for watching and listening. Thank you Jeff Jarvis, you are awesome.

01:05:33:20 - 01:05:57:19
Unknown
People should go to your site Jeff Jarvis. Com and preorder Hot Type and wait patiently for your audiobook that you are recording this week. Gutenberg parenthesis magazine. The web. We've all can be found at Jeff Jarvis. And yeah, and then you've got intelligence, AI and humanity also coming from Bloomsbury sometime soon. Do you know like a time frame for this?

01:05:57:23 - 01:06:17:22
Unknown
It's next year at some point. This is the this is the bio rhythms of publishing takes forever okay. All right. So that's put that in your pipe and smoke it. Next year it'll it'll be coming somewhere down the line. Go to pod tune up if you are interested in you know if you have a podcast going or you are involved with a podcast network.

01:06:17:22 - 01:06:43:16
Unknown
I like. I like working with networks as well as individuals. But Patton up, I will. I will give you my thoughts and my feedback and my my experience, my my years of experience in podcast about your projects. Pod tune up. Happy to work with you. You can find all the information there. And then finally AI inside Dot show is where the everything about this show can be found.

01:06:43:18 - 01:07:05:20
Unknown
Audio, video, links out to the Patreon, all that kind of stuff. And speaking of the Patreon, definitely want to throw a thank you a few thank yous around to the folks who help us do the show on a regular basis as executive producers. Doctor Do Jeffrey Martini, Radio Asheville 103.7 Dante. Saint James Bond, Derek. Jason. Jason. Brady, Anthony.

01:07:05:22 - 01:07:29:17
Unknown
Downs, Marc. Starker, Karsten. Sumac. Yeah. Thank you all. Continue to stick with us and we just really appreciate it. Thank you so much. There are plenty more of you who are not executive producers but do support us on other levels. You get those ad free shows, you get that that daily podcast on the Inside Daily podcast discord community, and you get a t shirt at that executive producer level.

01:07:29:17 - 01:07:53:01
Unknown
So we'd love to see more of you there. Thank you everybody. So many watching live stream today. Brady we got RV. Rob. We've got Mike Daniel, Joe, so many of you. It's awesome. This is pretty awesome. Not that one. That was spam anyways okay that's it I'm going to let you all go. Thank you again Jeff. This is a ton of fun.

01:07:53:04 - 01:07:56:21
Unknown
We'll see you next time. Another episode of AI inside by everybody.